Site Search:
 
Get TEFL Certified & Start Your Adventure Today!
Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

New Teachers in Japan Should Join the General Union
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Japan
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
rslrunner



Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 252

PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 2:44 am    Post subject: New Teachers in Japan Should Join the General Union Reply with quote

It is in the interest of every non-Japanese employee in the eikaiwa industry to join the General Union.

Here is why:

1. Any employee can join the General Union. You don’t have to be a long-time resident of Japan. As soon as you are hired, you should join.

2. The need for union protection in the eikaiwa industry is overwhelming. There are too many incidents which demonstrate an atmosphere of exploitation.

3. The benefits outweigh the costs. $300 will save you in thousands of working unpaid overtime, or will earn you thousands of overtime that you actually decide to work.

4. It is your right to join a General Union. It cannot be held against you. That is the law.

5. If every new employee joined the General Union, it would transform the eikaiwa industry. Its worst excesses would disappear, and the lives of thousands of teachers can be freed of fear and excessive manipulation.

This forum is for the benefit of the teachers. Every teacher should know their rights, and understand that a $300 investment would be a wise one in the eikaiwa environment as it currently exists.

Of course, I have no affiliation with the General Union. I have never been contacted by anyone at the General Union. I have never been a member. I do not make a yen by posting this.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mitsui



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki

PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed.

I am a member of the sister union, Tozen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jrwhisky



Joined: 07 Jul 2013
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had no idea these existed. I'm not big on unions back in the states they don't offer anything but limitations now a days. You can't work at a grocery store in the states without joining one and be forced to pay fees. Or face severe punishment if you're an aspring actor who tries to avoid joining the Union they will black list you so unless you got George Clooney status going you're totally screwed.

How do said groups work in Japan? do they work with your employers funneling your cash from employer to employee as a middle man checking to see all your hours have been accounted for? Or do they just represent you in a legal way when things messy?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pitarou



Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan

PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:42 pm    Post subject: Re: New Teachers in Japan Should Join the General Union Reply with quote

Thank you, rslrunner, for reminding us of the General Union's existence, but as usual, you go much too far.
rslrunner wrote:
Every teacher should ... understand that a $300 investment would be a wise one.

You are not a position to make that kind of statement.
rslrunner wrote:
Of course, I have no affiliation with the General Union. I have never been contacted by anyone at the General Union. I have never been a member.

But you neglect to tell us why.

To anyone who's reading this but doesn't know the history: rslrunner only spent a few days in Japan. He was sacked from Aeon during his initial training period, foolishly surrendered his work visa, and went back to his home country never to return.

From his lengthy posts complaining about not being prepared for what he encountered (or, as he puts it, "I want to make sure other people are informed") it's clear that he hadn't bothered to do even the most basic research about Japanese business life before he came. And, in my opinion, he still doesn't seem to get it, but that's besides the point.

My point is that rslrunner is singularly unqualified to give advice on employment matters in Japan. While it's certainly worth considering joining a union, don't do it on his say so.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mitsui



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki

PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You pay the dues once a month.
I just pay 2300 yen.

They have lawyers and help with disputes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ssjup81



Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 664
Location: Adachi-ku, Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really wish I was in one now. I feel I'm being cheated by my former employer...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
mitsui



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki

PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think disputes have up to seven years to go to small claims court.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rslrunner



Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 252

PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:03 am    Post subject: Re: New Teachers in Japan Should Join the General Union Reply with quote

Pitarou wrote:
Thank you, rslrunner, for reminding us of the General Union's existence, but as usual, you go much too far.
rslrunner wrote:
Every teacher should ... understand that a $300 investment would be a wise one.

You are not a position to make that kind of statement.
rslrunner wrote:
Of course, I have no affiliation with the General Union. I have never been contacted by anyone at the General Union. I have never been a member.

But you neglect to tell us why.

To anyone who's reading this but doesn't know the history: rslrunner only spent a few days in Japan. He was sacked from Aeon during his initial training period, foolishly surrendered his work visa, and went back to his home country never to return.

From his lengthy posts complaining about not being prepared for what he encountered (or, as he puts it, "I want to make sure other people are informed") it's clear that he hadn't bothered to do even the most basic research about Japanese business life before he came. And, in my opinion, he still doesn't seem to get it, but that's besides the point.

My point is that rslrunner is singularly unqualified to give advice on employment matters in Japan. While it's certainly worth considering joining a union, don't do it on his say so.


Pitarou, when in your view should new employees join the union, instead of merely considering it?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Maitoshi



Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 718
Location: 何処でも

PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll take this one! When the person has fully considered the decision relative to his or her situation. Perhaps consulting someone with some actual experience would be a part of the due diligence process.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Maitoshi



Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 718
Location: 何処でも

PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We all know just how much stock you put in due diligence, don't we Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pitarou



Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:22 am    Post subject: Re: New Teachers in Japan Should Join the General Union Reply with quote

rslrunner wrote:
Pitarou, when in your view should new employees join the union?

The short answer: Like Maitoshi said, join when an expert tells you it's a good idea, which is pretty rarely. You can't put a price on worker solidarity, but if you consider them as a form of insurance against employment difficulties, they're expensive and not very effective.

For the long answer, please bear in mind that I am not an expert. The examples I give are for illustrative purposes only, and there's every chance I've got my facts wrong.

Most unions won't help you at all. They are under the direct control of the companies whose workers they are supposed to represent. Joining them is more about career advancement than about improving the lot of your fellow workers. (This system goes back to the post-War arrangement between Japan and the US to stifle all left-wing movements.)

Of the few outspoken unions that survive, their only significant power is their ability to force a company to come to the negotiating table. If your employer is in clear breach of the rules*, this is a cheap and efficient way to force them to recognise their breach and to show that you're serious about your rights. Sometimes this is enough to get you what you want.

For example, if you're a part-time worker who fears dismissal and you're doing enough saabisu zangyou (unpaid overtime) to make full-time hours, there's a case for joining something like General Union. If you're dismissed, the union has a good chance of securing better exit terms by forcing the company to accept that you were really a full-timer all along.

But these kinds of situations are pretty rare, especially in large companies. They are careful to toe the line and avoid falling into obvious traps like the part-time / full-time one. And it's often possible to secure a union's help by joining at the time when you need them, rather than paying for years of subscription fees beforehand.

* Footnote: By "rules" I do not mean the letter of the law. As you know from our previous discussions, it's not that simple in Japan: the letter of the law is just one of thing that's taken into consideration.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rxk22



Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pitarou pretty much nailed it. Japanese unions tend to be fairly weak, as that is how Post War Japan and the US wanted things. Also Japanese labor laws are pretty much toothless.

Toyota just had some record breaking profit, yet the raises that the union accepted were one of the lowest raises in Toyota history. The union just accepted it, and that was that.

I would love it if people working at eikaiwas didn't have to work during their 10 min breaks. Or if they at least could get them credited as actual working hours. I just doubt the union can/will do anything. As a lot of it is cultural, and not always pushed from the top.
Look at the fed govt here, their finance ministry or something, turns off the lights at 10pm, yet there are still employees left working. You can't stop that with a union, unless you get like the US. You have to fire people who do anything off the clock, and punish the employers. That simply won't happen here though.

I work at a private school, and I put in almost an hour of extra face time/OT everyday. If I didn't I would be looked down upon, and that would hurt my dept. Just how it is.

BTW if anyone is looking to come to Japan, look up things like this. Don't be like the TS and waltz in here knowing little. Also in another thread, we had someone show shock at the exchange rate, that should be something in your top 10 to know list.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rslrunner



Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 252

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is what I'm hearing: the unions can't do much. The culture here is too deeply ingrained. One has to go along to get along. It can't be helped. This view is consistent with Japanese culture.

But I am focused on the young, impressionable Westerners who come here for one to two years. I have one simple question: Why should these newbies be pushed around for the sake of going along to get along?

The abuses that have been occurring in the eikaiwa industry have been consistent and unrelenting over the years. I think the book English to Go is a game-changer in alerting people to the overall situation:

http://www.amazon.com/English-Go-Inside-teaching-sweatshops/dp/150535093X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1434375542&sr=8-1&keywords=english+to+go

My views about Aeon are clear, but the whole eikaiwa industry is both covetous and eerie. Gaba and Interac are the worst. (Interac's new teacher orientation is even more cultish than Aeon's. Ever wonder why Interac makes trainees deliberately uncomfortable like making rooms freezing cold? Or the inexcusable browbeating of people by a presenter? Those are cult techniques.)

How to change the situation? Well, going along to get along won't cut it. Having an advocate willhelp, especially if one is not willing to fight on your own.

The need for the union is desperate, but because of a climate in which too many people in the industry believe it is their God-given right to push Westerners around.

Joining the union immediately after starting in Japan sets the tone and puts the employee on notice that manipulative conduct will be counter-productive.

Telling people that joining a union won't help is fatalism, especially because it would not take much more activism to make the eikaiwa experience three to four levels more pleasant for its employees.

Some people are saying that the union will not make a difference. Some are also saying the General Union is a part of the companies. I do not believe either of these things. It is up to the people saying these things to prove it. I for one believe that the claims made by the General Union on its website are accurate, and that they can make a difference. If these claims are wrong, then one has to come out and say it. if these claims are correct, than the $300 a year can help an employee avoid hundreds of hours of unpaid overtime.

As an outsider, I am the perfect person to be advocating for these things. Westerners in Japan can't rock the boat, and prefer to go along to get along, as they want to blend with the culture. But that won't solve the problems here. Too much power presides in people over foreigners who are often young, impressionable and in a totally unfamiliar environment. And when you give one group too much power over people, bad things happen.

Being treated badly is not a cultural norm. To the new teachers in Japan, stand up for yourself. Protect yourself. Live your life with constancy and security. Join the General Union.


http://generalunion.org/Joomla/index.php/en/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GambateBingBangBOOM



Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rslrunner wrote:

Joining the union immediately after starting in Japan sets the tone and puts the employee on notice that manipulative conduct will be counter-productive.


No. It sets the tone for "You are still on probation. We don't need you anymore. Pack your stuff and get out of OUR apartment."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pitarou



Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rslrunner wrote:
Some are also saying the General Union is a part of the companies.

I did not say that. I took some time to answer the question you directed at me, and the least you could do is read the answer properly before you pooh-pooh it.
rslrunner wrote:
As an outsider, I am the perfect person to be advocating for these things.

You have a notorious grudge and no skin in the game. I'd say you're the last person anyone should listen to.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Japan All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Teaching Jobs in China
Teaching Jobs in China