Job Discussion Forums

[Daniel A]

Hi, my wife and I are both looking to teach for the first time in China. We both have Bachelor degrees, are Canadian, native English speakers, with 120 hour TESOL certs. We have limited classroom teaching ability.
What would an appropriate compensation package be for our credentials?
We have received offers as high as 16000 RMB each with fully paid flights, tuition for our kids, apartment, utilities and plane tickets (Zhejiang region) and as low as 5700 RMB with half as much value in perks (Ningbo).
I am curious as to other's experiences with the pay schemes out here and their original offers with based on similar credentials and what region the job was offered in.
Thanks!

[hdeth]

There will not be many with similar experience. You are married and have kids. That is highly unusual. 'International' schools will want you just for getting your kids to come to the school.

[jimpellow]

It is certainly true that salaries can be all over the board. No fast rule for the lowest paying offers, but often it is due to a recruiter being involved who intends to pocket a substantial part of your salary.

Couples are attractive to schools as they can kill two birds with one stone so to say. Usually they can save on the cost of an apartment too, but with you bringing kids they will need to provide a larger one. If the apartment will be coming out of your salary, you will be paying a lot up front for it, and paying a fair amount for something acceptable for your family in terms of quality and size.

Bringing the kids along is a real rarity, especially for standard ESL teachers. If you think it will be a fun process to receive your visas, wait until the process for them per the 2014 visa changes unless these have been revised.

I think you would need to talk about your background and what and where you intend to teach to give you an accurate salary range (public or private, children or adults, specialized subjects such as Business English, subjects, IELTS prep etc.

The paid tuition sounds odd to me for a first time general ESL teacher? I could see free tuition if you were to work in a true international school, but your qualifications don't sound adequate for such.

PS The Ningbo offer sounds like a joke. You may also want to research the pollution issue for where you may go if you intend to bring the kids. A good number of expats with families in China have left specifically due to the pollution issue. The school will rarely tell you the truth (get used to this). Best to ask questions on boards and research.

PSS You also mention limited classroom experience. To obtain a z-visa in many jurisdictions two years of relevant experience is increasingly a more common requirement. If either of you do not have this, the ability to obtain visas successfully becomes vague, or at least so in the sense beyond the scope of the thread.

[Non Sequitur]

What's the contact hours pw and additional office hours?
You will have seen multiple references to the Job Offer Checklist thread - have you checked it out?

[Daniel A]

Thanks for the good replies. Though we are new to the ESL teaching game we have some background with teaching. I have trained others in a corporate setting and my wife has extensive experience working with children with special needs (I personally think the skills she has overcoming barriers to communication and learning is an excellent selling feature).
We have done some homework and there is a snowballs chance in hell of us getting on a plane without the proper working Visas. We are in no rush and not tight on cash which is a nice position to be in.
I have seen the checklist with the 26 questions which I have applied with some discretion (though I did have one gentleman address it point by point!).
The office hours are not too bad at an expected 5-10 hours if necessary.

[Non Sequitur]

5-10 office hours pw on top of what contact hours?

[JB140767]

[Daniel A]

It is based on a 20 hour week.
I think we are just going to try and work opposing schedules so that we always have one parent at home. There are a couple of schools that are willing to work with us so far. If we can get low hours at a reasonable salary/benefit package then we will probably go there.
The alternative is to have one of us work at a training center in the evening and the other during the day at a public school in the same neighbourhood. The problem is I have almost zero knowledge of how to figure out which schools are within close proximity to each other. It might be nice to hedge the risks associated with being tied to a single institution...

[Non Sequitur]

The 20 hours will likely be a max figure.
More likely 14-16 pw and these will be 50-minute hours.
The problem with the one at home - one working scenario is:
'Who is going to sponsor the visas?'
The stay at home parent that finds a job after hours will be working illegally and with the general tightening up of these things, there could be repercussions for the school.
I understand the risk argument (both dependent on one employer) but it's a trade off.
If you do due diligence and the school makes the right noises as far as giving you workable schedules - then that's a lot more 'in the bag' than vague possibilities of the school being horrible.
It's a 'least downside' approach in that first year in my experience.
The other poster makes 'good' and 'bad' comments about salaries.
Salaries are neither good or bad they are just the marketplace in operation.
I have never said 5k was good - it's just a figure. Apples with apples, there's a lot more jobs on offer at 5-7 than at 12-14.

[Daniel A]

Thanks Non Sequitur. My intention would to be sponsored separately. One of us to each school. We would arrange the contracts to be for the same commencement date and have opposed schedules.
The relation of the schools to each other and then to where we live would be tricky as my knowledge of Chinese transit and how long it takes to get around is non-existent.
You are right about the due diligence. I was happy with the contract we were offered so I am using it as a template for future negotiations.

[JB140767]

[LarssonCrew]

The problem I can see with most jobs advertised in BJ, SZ, SH etc. is that most no longer include housing.

12000 in Shanghai without a house ends up [with travel costs, rent in a cheap place, electricity, gas, internet] leaving you with 6000 RMB for a month.

Hardly saving anything.

Seems the better job offers are either full time that require alot of effort [i.e. 40 hours in the school], but offer 20000 with housing say, OR are housing + say 10,000 with only 16-20 hours a week, allowing you to burn another 15000 in pt work

[Non Sequitur]

[Non Sequitur]

[jimpellow]

Just another option to throw out there would be for one of you to take an ESL position and the other to work remotely teaching or other gainful employment. The advantages would be no need to worry about the logistics and you would be able to spend more time together.

Since you will be going through the hassle of non work visas for the kids not asking too much more to get another one for a spouse too.

As one of the more pessimistic people on this board as regards PRC Chinese nature, I do have to reiterate an above reference about an employer doing what they originally promised to. Your scenario of you and the wife working separate shifts for the same employer is a good example. Being told that they can accommodate you on this, and actually doing so can be quite different matters. They are very consistent in being inconsistent in agreements and contractual matters and over promising and under delivering. Hell, they will come up with big elaborate lies that sound so incredibly real and honest, and two days later when you question them about it they will completely deny it, half the time to the point where they themselves don't even honestly remember it.

You seem very with it, but your unique situation and anything agreed upon relating to it needs to be in the written contract if you hadn't insisted upon that already.