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Getting hired without a TEFL/TESOL + a few other questions

 
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Geostride87



Joined: 18 Dec 2015
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:54 am    Post subject: Getting hired without a TEFL/TESOL + a few other questions Reply with quote

Hello All,

I've been on the General Forum for the last few days enquiring about getting TESOL / TEFL certified in Thailand (and possibly Vietnam or Cambodia),...in terms of who to certify with, which certification to get, and whether or not to certify at all.

Most job postings on the main board state that a TEFL or TESOL certification is required or preferred to apply for teaching positions. However, based some resources and posters from the other board, it seems as though you should be able to secure a teaching position with just a degree.

I personally like the idea of going to SE Asia and starting to teach without the initial investment of paying for a certification (for my wife and I both), and getting a feel of what it's like. Then, if we decide we want to continue teaching, we can go ahead and get certified (TEFL, TESOL or CELTA). IF this is a realistic option, can anyone suggest any contacts, schools, local job boards or any leads at all on how we can apply for and secure a teaching position before arriving in Thailand? And if you advise that we should get certified prior to teaching, could you recommend a school/institute where we can get certified (preferably budget friendly). We've been looking in to See TEFL and Language Corps Asia so far

A little about us....we're both native english speakers from Canada. I have a bachelors degree in Science (Geology), and my wife will be finishing up her Bachelors in Science (double major; Biology/Psychology) next month, but she wont officially graduate until June. We're okay with going overseas and me being the only one to teach initially, while she waits to get her degree. She has prior teaching experience as a volunteer, and is currently working with autistic children. I have some experience coaching teenagers in sports (hockey, soccer). I realize it isn't the same as teaching english, but each experience has it's own unique challenges, and I'm sure some of the skills can transfer over.

Anyway, I apologize for the lengthy post, and will appreciate any feedback! If all goes well, we hope to be in Thailand by April ish!

Cheers!
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roguegrafix



Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 125

PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My university only requires a degree (SNAP!--I have one in geology too). Outside of the main cities you'll find schools and universities are more relaxed with "paper" qualifications. The main thing is the ability to live in rural Thailand where the only English you'll hear is in the classroom--so probably not for first-timers. In my experience, if a place wants you, they'll do everything they can to get you the job including bending or "re-interpreting" rules in typical Thai fashion.
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EFL Educator



Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 988
Location: Cape Town

PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To The OP,

Welcome to the Land Of Smiles. Once here there are a lot of TEFL schools to choose from...I highly recommend the Text & Talk teacher TEFL certification course...it is affordable and caters to the ELT Thai market here. However.a basic university degree will open doors for you here with most government schools. Pay is generally between Baths 28,000 and Baths 33,000 per month...private schools around Baths 35,000/Month. Smile
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sigmoid



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 1276

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
IF this is a realistic option, can anyone suggest any contacts, schools, local job boards or any leads at all on how we can apply for and secure a teaching position before arriving in Thailand?


Teaching without a cert is definitely a realistic option in most of Southeast Asia. Singapore and Brunei are probably the exceptions.

This site has a joblist:

http://eslcafe.com/joblist/

In addition, just search for "(name of country) teaching jobs" and you will find several sites for each country.

I wouldn't recommend securing a job before arriving. Few schools will hire sight unseen and there's no real advantage for you. Contact schools, send resumes, communicate, ask questions and set up interviews but don't agree to anything until you're there.

That way you can see the town or city, the school, your potential boss, etc with your own eyes and make an informed decision.

Also, with your degrees in science you may be able to find jobs teaching science, which generally pays more than teaching English.

Another thing to think about is deciding which country to focus on. Southeast Asia is not as developed as Japan, Korea and Taiwan, and conditions can be appalling and somewhat primitive. The political situation is precarious in some countries. Hopefully, you have traveled some in the developing world and know what to expect.
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Geostride87



Joined: 18 Dec 2015
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2016 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

roguegrafix wrote:
My university only requires a degree (SNAP!--I have one in geology too).


Nice! Where did you do your degree?


Quote:

To The OP,

Welcome to the Land Of Smiles. Once here there are a lot of TEFL schools to choose from...I highly recommend the Text & Talk teacher TEFL certification course...it is affordable and caters to the ELT Thai market here. However.a basic university degree will open doors for you here with most government schools. Pay is generally between Baths 28,000 and Baths 33,000 per month...private schools around Baths 35,000/Month. Smile


Thanks! I appreciate the comment and info!

Quote:
Teaching without a cert is definitely a realistic option in most of Southeast Asia. Singapore and Brunei are probably the exceptions.

This site has a joblist:

http://eslcafe.com/joblist/

In addition, just search for "(name of country) teaching jobs" and you will find several sites for each country.

I wouldn't recommend securing a job before arriving. Few schools will hire sight unseen and there's no real advantage for you. Contact schools, send resumes, communicate, ask questions and set up interviews but don't agree to anything until you're there.

That way you can see the town or city, the school, your potential boss, etc with your own eyes and make an informed decision.

Also, with your degrees in science you may be able to find jobs teaching science, which generally pays more than teaching English.

Another thing to think about is deciding which country to focus on. Southeast Asia is not as developed as Japan, Korea and Taiwan, and conditions can be appalling and somewhat primitive. The political situation is precarious in some countries. Hopefully, you have traveled some in the developing world and know what to expect.



Yep, we've backpacked through a few developing countries, but haven't been through Thailand yet.

All these suggestions are great, so Thank You all! I'm glad I decided to reach out on this forum, as most of my previous contact in the last month or two has been with companies that offer TEFL programs on the ground, and of course they're going to sell you on the course. I've gotten a completely new perspective on things with regards to Thailand.

PS: I didn't even think of Brunei! Might be worth looking in to as well lol, even if we do have to get certified.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geostride87 wrote:
sigmoid wrote:
Teaching without a cert is definitely a realistic option in most of Southeast Asia. Singapore and Brunei are probably the exceptions.
....

Also, with your degrees in science you may be able to find jobs teaching science, which generally pays more than teaching English.

PS: I didn't even think of Brunei! Might be worth looking in to as well lol, even if we do have to get certified.

You'd likely need experience and a CELTA/equivalent TEFL cert for Brunei. But as Canadians, you're the right nationality.

Ditto sigmoid's point about you and your wife teaching science. (I'd mentioned this on your newbie thread, but you never addressed this option.) It would open way more doors for you, especially if you're considering working and living overseas for more than 1-2 years. Since the Gulf is a region you were thinking about, you might be interested to know that the UAE has the most international schools in the world (see UAE a leader in English education). That equates to lots of opportunities for licensed, experienced k-12 teachers --- even more for STEM teachers.
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Geostride87



Joined: 18 Dec 2015
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nomad soul wrote:
Geostride87 wrote:
sigmoid wrote:
Teaching without a cert is definitely a realistic option in most of Southeast Asia. Singapore and Brunei are probably the exceptions.
....

Also, with your degrees in science you may be able to find jobs teaching science, which generally pays more than teaching English.

PS: I didn't even think of Brunei! Might be worth looking in to as well lol, even if we do have to get certified.

You'd likely need experience and a CELTA/equivalent TEFL cert for Brunei. But as Canadians, you're the right nationality.

Ditto sigmoid's point about you and your wife teaching science. (I'd mentioned this on your newbie thread, but you never addressed this option.) It would open way more doors for you, especially if you're considering working and living overseas for more than 1-2 years. Since the Gulf is a region you were thinking about, you might be interested to know that the UAE has the most international schools in the world (see UAE a leader in English education). That equates to lots of opportunities for licensed, experienced k-12 teachers --- even more for STEM teachers.


Haha that's weird, the teaching science comment was the first thing I mentioned to my wife! Which reminds me to ask, how would one go about looking for these positions? They certainly aren't advertised on these job boards. We thought maybe our first contract could be strictly teaching english, and during that time we could explore and ask around about teaching science. Good strategy?

Also, on a bit of an unrelated note, if we WERE to get TEFL/TESOL, can those training hours be put towards getting a CELTA or are they two completely different things?
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geostride87 wrote:
nomad soul wrote:
Ditto sigmoid's point about you and your wife teaching science. (I'd mentioned this on your newbie thread, but you never addressed this option.) It would open way more doors for you, especially if you're considering working and living overseas for more than 1-2 years. Since the Gulf is a region you were thinking about, you might be interested to know that the UAE has the most international schools in the world (see UAE a leader in English education). That equates to lots of opportunities for licensed, experienced k-12 teachers --- even more for STEM teachers.

Haha that's weird, the teaching science comment was the first thing I mentioned to my wife! Which reminds me to ask, how would one go about looking for these positions? They certainly aren't advertised on these job boards. We thought maybe our first contract could be strictly teaching english, and during that time we could explore and ask around about teaching science. Good strategy?

Pointless strategy unless you expect to get hired without being licensed or experienced. Maybe that's a possibility in Thailand, but you'd have to ask that question on the forums of the other countries you're interested in. But generally, you're talking apples-n-oranges. Teaching English language skills with a TEFL cert is not at the same level of teaching content (e.g., art, math, science, history, etc.) as a certified/licensed teacher. Government-qualified teachers are educated in their fields and teach in public or accredited private schools --- the same schools you attended for k-12 in Canada. In contrast, depending on the teaching situation, TEFL teachers generally aren't as strictly regulated. For example, there are still teachers armed only with a TEFL cert and no degree, who are legally teaching in some parts of the world. Yet, an MA in TESOL and several years of experience is the minimum to teach pre-university English at the tertiary level in the UAE --- the stakes are higher.

I suggest you take a look at Teach Away and Seek Teachers for a better sense of what's needed to teach in public and private schools abroad.

and Geostride87 wrote:
Also, on a bit of an unrelated note, if we WERE to get TEFL/TESOL, can those training hours be put towards getting a CELTA or are they two completely different things?

Uh, as I mentioned on your newbie thread, CELTA (Cambridge English Language Assessment), Trinity CertTESOL (Trinity College London), and even SIT TESOL (SIT Graduate Institute) are brands. Generic TEFL courses are through private companies and aren't related to any of the brands. More apples-n-oranges. If anything, their competitors.
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sigmoid



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 1276

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Pointless strategy unless you expect to get hired without being licensed or experienced. Maybe that's a possibility in Thailand, but you'd have to ask that question on the forums of the other countries you're interested in. But generally, you're talking apples-n-oranges. Teaching English language skills with a TEFL cert is not at the same level of teaching content (e.g., art, math, science, history, etc.) as a certified/licensed teacher. Government-qualified teachers are educated in their fields and teach in public or accredited private schools


This is certainly true but I was thinking of the numerous UNaccredited private "international" schools in countries like Laos, Cambodia, and perhaps Thailand and others.

For example, this is from a secondary school in Myanmar:

"We're now accepting applications for our new school year set to begin in early June 2016. Pending notification from our current teachers, openings could be for Year 7 & 9 English, Year 10-11 IGCSE English, Year 7-9 Science, Year 7-9 Math, and Year 7-9 Geo/History.
If you're capable and interested in teaching any of these subjects at these levels, please send us a detailed CV and a current photo and we'll go from there.
We ask that you have at least a B.A. in your subject field, an ongoing interest in it, and solid experience teaching. Teaching experience abroad, Secondary school experience in particular, and teaching certifications are all a plus. Patience, kindness, flexibility, being well-organized, a positive attitude--- these things are very important to us as well."

from: http://www.eslcafe.com/joblist/index.cgi?read=37720
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