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Ongoing Development in ESL Leadership - PhD? Other?

 
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daryl_ks



Joined: 23 Jun 2014
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:02 am    Post subject: Ongoing Development in ESL Leadership - PhD? Other? Reply with quote

Hi everyone,

Got quite a narrow question, but was hoping I might run into someone who might be able to help me out...

I've spent the past 10 years working in ESL/EFL leadership/management type positions (am currently working for a university in such a role). I've taught, designed materials, been a teacher trainer, worked as an examiner. But moving forward in leadership/management at the tertiary level is where I'd like to be...

Has anyone had experience pursuing a PhD through a university 'Center for Educational Leadership' (or similar type of research center)?

Does anyone have any tips for further development as in ESL/EFL leadership/management?

Cheers
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:17 am    Post subject: Re: Ongoing Development in ESL Leadership - PhD? Other? Reply with quote

daryl_ks wrote:
Moving forward in leadership/management at the tertiary level is where I'd like to be...

Has anyone had experience pursuing a PhD through a university 'Center for Educational Leadership' (or similar type of research center)?

Does anyone have any tips for further development as in ESL/EFL leadership/management?

You want to be in an educational leadership role in which country?

As for "tips for further development as in ESL/EFL leadership/management," it's hard to say given that you state you have 10 years working in ESL/EFL leadership/management type positions. Have you joined your local and national TESOL affiliates? Presented at TESOL events? Been published?
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daryl_ks



Joined: 23 Jun 2014
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Nomad,

I'm based in New Zealand.

I'm a long-term member of TESOL international and new member of its local NZ affiliate (TESOLANZ).

I've presented at TESOL-affiliated events in Taiwan (for publishers - not my own research) and will be running a workshop at the upcoming CLESOL conference in NZ (I hope I get accepted).

I've done such short-courses as TESOL's Leadership Development Program and TESOL's Training of Trainers.

I've been back in NZ for 9 months. Prior to this my entire career was in Taiwan (which was kind of a black hole of professional development and I would never have had the opportunity to move above the position I held)... Therefore, in terms of moving ahead in a 'western' tertiary context, I'm kind of short on knowledge...

I know that a majority of people I work with have phD's (and all of those in more senior positions do). It's been on my mind to do one, but my interests have always been more in leadership/motivation than applied linguistics. In addition, I'd rather invest my time in something that has applicability outside of TESOL.

Cheers for replying! Smile
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currentaffairs



Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 828

PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would probably look at the Delta and take the DoS/Educational Leadership pathway. It looks to be a more practical and professional route and will develop and train people in the requisite skills needed.

However, if you want to move outside the field then perhaps a PhD would be beneficial but PhDs in the UK are very research-based and take a long time. I would see them as more for people who want to become lecturers and researchers.

What about doing an MA in Management/Leadership at a reputable university?
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daryl_ks



Joined: 23 Jun 2014
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had thought of the DELTA, however don't think it will hold much weight moving ahead in tertiary education in NZ. I've got no issue with the research aspect of a PhD - I genuinely have interests in motivation and links between schools leadership and student outcomes. I'll be in NZ for the foreseeable future (got kids to get through primary, high school and university).

An MA in management/leadership would probably be more practical, but would one suffer from the perception (fact) of not possessing a PhD? Who knows...

Might need to try to sound out some locals in these fields...
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

daryl_ks wrote:
I'm a long-term member of TESOL international and new member of its local NZ affiliate (TESOLANZ).

I know that a majority of people I work with have phD's (and all of those in more senior positions do). It's been on my mind to do one, but my interests have always been more in leadership/motivation than applied linguistics. In addition, I'd rather invest my time in something that has applicability outside of TESOL.
....

I had thought of the DELTA, however don't think it will hold much weight moving ahead in tertiary education in NZ. I've got no issue with the research aspect of a PhD - I genuinely have interests in motivation and links between schools leadership and student outcomes. I'll be in NZ for the foreseeable future (got kids to get through primary, high school and university).

Might need to try to sound out some locals in these fields...

Pass on the Delta; it offers minimal benefit in terms of your broader professional goals outside of TESOL. By the way, what are your academic credentials?

Definitely hit up the locals for specifics about doctoral programs in your area. Also post on the NZ forum. Don't overlook LinkedIn; get your profile up and start connecting with others relevant to your career interests.
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suphanburi



Joined: 20 Mar 2014
Posts: 916

PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP:

Doing a related MA/E.Ed in educational administration / TESOL / TEFL if you don't already have a related thesis based MA is a good first step before you jump into a research based PhD/Ed.D.

Consider it your apprenticeship into original research and publication else you are more likely to end up ABD rather than PhD. Doing a post grad dissertation is NOT the same as your undergrad work. Form, format and genre will do you in if your committee doesn't.

.
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Richard62



Joined: 08 Aug 2011
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about doing the IDLTM?
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daryl_ks



Joined: 23 Jun 2014
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi guys,

My MA was based around issues of intrinsic/extrinsic motivation and how they can be fostered via online learning platforms with secondary-aged students. I feel comfortable enough with getting back into the research side of things (although I might say something different once I start). However, in terms of doing something that has broader applicability (outside of TESOL) I though it best to not go further down this route.

I've also been involved in a few research projects focused on curriculum/course design.

I've also done a post-grad diploma in business administration.
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daryl_ks



Joined: 23 Jun 2014
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richard62 wrote:
What about doing the IDLTM?


Just read that Cambridge is pulling out of the IDLTM...

http://www.cambridgeenglish.org/teaching-english/teaching-qualifications/idltm/

Not sure what that will mean for that as a qual going forward. Was it ever that popular?
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daryl_ks



Joined: 23 Jun 2014
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have found that 4 NZ universities have Centers for Educational Leadership "basically research groups that focus on leadership across all educational sectors". So, if one wanted to go the PhD / Leadership / Education route, perhaps such a research center would be a good place to start...

I had thought about Australian universities as well, but can't seem to find such centers.

CET (Cambridge English Teacher) magazine had an article last year about career progress as an ELT, but I can't remember if it focused too much on the tertiary sector...

I do think that given our industry (any industry maybe?) and the state of it (especially in NZ) it's always a good idea to pursue qualifications that go some way towards preparing one for a career outside of ELT.
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rtm



Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US

PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

daryl_ks wrote:
I do think that given our industry (any industry maybe?) and the state of it (especially in NZ) it's always a good idea to pursue qualifications that go some way towards preparing one for a career outside of ELT.

Yes and no. I can see what you are getting at in terms of making your skills applicable to a wider market. On the other hand, however, I don't think you'd be as competitive for a leadership/management position in an area of education in which you have never been a teacher.

I don't know how things work in NZ, but I've known a few directors of intensive English programs in the US who had an Ed.D. in higher education management.
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daryl_ks



Joined: 23 Jun 2014
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My director has a doctorate in Pasifika studies...

It heartens me to hear that there are directors of programmes who do hold such qualifications.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

daryl_ks wrote:
I do think that given our industry (any industry maybe?) and the state of it (especially in NZ) it's always a good idea to pursue qualifications that go some way towards preparing one for a career outside of ELT.

What about an MA or doctorate in something like Organizational Leadership? It's relevant across all fields/industries.

See What Jobs Can You Get With an Organizational Leadership Degree?
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MotherF



Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1450
Location: 1748'N 9746'W

PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

daryl_ks wrote:
Richard62 wrote:
What about doing the IDLTM?


Just read that Cambridge is pulling out of the IDLTM...

http://www.cambridgeenglish.org/teaching-english/teaching-qualifications/idltm/

Not sure what that will mean for that as a qual going forward. Was it ever that popular?


I don't think it was ever popular. A shame. I have this qualification and found it immensely useful in doing my job--however it was a job I got before having the qualification and I've never tried to use it to get another job. So I don't know how useful it was for job seeking. But like I said, it really helped me think about and do the management job better.
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