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Lavender122
Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 12
Location: England
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 Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:50 am Post subject: Application for Saudi Job Rejected |
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Hello everyone!
I recently applied for a couple of jobs in Saudi via some agencies and was rejected. I was very surprised by this since I have 8+ years of teaching English experience and an English degree (and am a native). I am not sure what the reason was and no reason was offered other than 'declined by client'.
Any guesses why this was?
Thanks |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 10:09 am Post subject: |
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Who knows? It could have been your:
- age (past recruitment age)
- sex (i.e., female applying to a male university and vice versa)
- degree (English degrees aren't always accepted)
- degree delivery (degrees with online coursework aren't accepted)
- degree (degrees from non-Anglophone countries aren't always accepted)
- degree awarded after experience was gained
- lack of a CELTA or equivalent in-person TEFL cert
- timing (some positions are only filled via TESOL Arabia's job fair) |
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Lavender122
Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 12
Location: England
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 10:47 am Post subject: |
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Thank you, Nomad Soul for your response.
I have a CELTA (in-person as opposed to online). And I applied for a female position. I thought it might be age, but I am mid-30s only lol!
Oh well, I suppose I shouldnt have been so optimistic.
I have a friend currently working out in Saudi who got her position directly after completing her CELTA with no teaching experience, so I presumed, incorrectly in this case, that I was in with a good chance. |
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Lord T
Joined: 07 Jul 2015
Posts: 285
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:03 am Post subject: |
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Lavender122- I have very little faith in the agents in the UK (or anywhere else for that matter).
Anyone can start a recruitment agency in the UK. You don't need any special qualifications or experience.
Why should your future be decided by a 22-year old in York/Nottingham/London who has never set foot in Saudi and most likely never will?
Try to go direct hire, and make the agents redundant.
Best wishes. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| Lavender122 wrote: |
| I have a friend currently working out in Saudi who got her position directly after completing her CELTA with no teaching experience, so I presumed, incorrectly in this case, that I was in with a good chance. |
If she has a TEFL-related BA or MA, then that's possible. But why don't you apply to the same university where your friend is? |
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Lavender122
Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 12
Location: England
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:40 am Post subject: |
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| I agree Lord T, but I dont have contacts for direct hire. My friend put me in touch with the agency that hired her, who subsequently rejected me and have told me that I cannot reapply for 90 days. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Lavender122 wrote: |
| My friend put me in touch with the agency that hired her, who subsequently rejected me and have told me that I cannot reapply for 90 days. |
Perhaps they've hit their limit if they're telling you to try again after 90 days. But it's hard to say without knowing what university/college your friend is at. Regardless, it seems she's not a direct hire. Direct hire means that the university/college recruits and hires employees; no outside companies are involved. Take a look at The skinny on direct-hire university opportunities.
What is your degree level (BA or MA) and specific major (i.e., English or English Literature or...)? |
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desertfox
Joined: 14 Jun 2015
Posts: 120
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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Nomad Soul - you say correctly that direct hire jobs are advertised and recruited by the hiring university themselves.
However, a recent exception was Dammam University.
They employed an agency in London called "Trines" who did the recruitment for them. The agent also charged those hired a hefty recruitment fee into the bargain.
Maybe another example of the deterioration of the Tefl job market in the Middle East |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| It is illegal for an Employment Agency in the UK to charge job applicants. Expenses must be borne by the employer. |
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hash
Joined: 17 Dec 2014
Posts: 456
Location: Wadi Jinn
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:25 pm Post subject: Re: Application for Saudi Job Rejected |
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| Lavender122 wrote: |
Hello everyone! I recently applied for a couple of jobs in Saudi via some agencies and was rejected....... Any guesses why this was?
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Note that I'm familiar only with US employment practices. However, I doubt there's much difference with UK practices in actual details. (One exception (see Scot47 above) is that in the US, PRIVATE employment agencies can and do charge their clients for services rendered. Not so, of course, with PUBLIC (govt.) employment agencies which also exist).
1- As with so many people seeking advice here, you simply don't give enough information about your particular situation for any detailed or substantive reply or advice to be forthcoming. All we can do is guess.
For example, you say "I applied for a couple of ......"
Really? A couple? Does that mean ONE or TWO or THREE....etc. Did you apply for them at the same time or over a period of time? Through the SAME agency or were there a "couple" of those too? Did ALL the agencies you used reject you and did they ALL say re-apply in 90 days?
Did you apply for (a) SPECIFIC ADVERTISED job(s) or did you just contact the agency(ies) based on your friend's recommendation? Is one of these agencies the same one that "hired your friend?" or is/are this/these different agencies you just picked out of the phone book?
I'm going to have to make this short. Here are a couple of more comments:
2- If you applied for a specific job advertised somewhere, you have to be aware that a job might not really exist. At least in the USA, as far as I know, it is not illegal to advertise a non-existent job on the basis that "they" are conducting a "survey" or are "researching" and so on.
The point is, they now have all your information on file for future "use". They could be selling your information to commercial enterprises for advertising purposes, for all you know. (Did you get some sort of guarantee that they wouldn't do this with your information? In the US, whomever you give your details to, must alert you to this fact giving you a chance NOT to give out the information).
3- Why should YOU contact THEM after 90 days? It should be the other way around. As soon as they have a new job possibility on their files for their customers (you) they should contact YOU, don't you think?
4- Why 90 days? Where did that magic number come from?
5- You say you have a "CELTA", but you failed to mention the really important document: what was your BA in? What was your major? To say "English" doesn't mean anything. You mean English like in Piers Plowman or The Fairie Queene or are you talking about a Linguistic degree and so on.
You were already asked about this but you kept it hidden for some reason and just mentioned the CELTA. The CELTA is a secondary document...it's not even a degree or an academic document. It's the BA that counts, but we still don't know anything about it.
Perhaps that's the reason you were rejected (assuming a real job exists to begin with). Or it could all be a scam.
Good luck. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| desertfox wrote: |
Nomad Soul - you say correctly that direct hire jobs are advertised and recruited by the hiring university themselves.
However, a recent exception was Dammam University.
They employed an agency in London called "Trines" who did the recruitment for them. |
Dammam U ran their own ad last year for TEFL-related MA and PhD holders for lecturer and professor spots. So just because it's a university doesn't mean it only hires directly via their in-house recruiters; some unis also use contracting companies to provide additional teacher staffing and/or administrative needs. KAU, KSU, and PNU are also examples of this practice --- uni direct hires working alongside company-hired teachers.
ETA: Trines touts itself as an ELT Training, Recruitment and Development company. Their ad states:
| Quote: |
As part of our partnership with Dammam University we will provide a University Training Program before you depart. Details of this training and what is included are outlined in this document.
In addition we will also offer on going support and professional development during your first year. This may be done through observations of lessons, progress reviews and further training. As an organisation we will provide ongoing support during your stay at Dammam and offer professional development to help you build a career in teaching. |
Apparently, they do more than recruiting, but it's unclear if they're the employer.
Aside from asking during the interview, the most obvious way to tell who the actual employer is (contracting company or direct hire) is per the signatory on the employment contract. For example, it's either Wasta University or Al-Kabsa Educational Services.
Last edited by nomad soul on Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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MartinEFL
Joined: 13 Jan 2016
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:48 pm Post subject: no |
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| I was sent up to teach at Dammam uni in 2011 by AETG. I started at Al Faisal Academy in Riyadh and then suddenly was sent up to Dammam. I only lasted 2 or 3 weeks and then they sent another teacher to take my place and I was sent back to AFC in Riyadh where I lasted just 2 months on a business visa. They fired me in 2 months without notice. I don't like AETG |
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Lord T
Joined: 07 Jul 2015
Posts: 285
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:46 am Post subject: |
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scot47-in order to circumvent the law, here's what has started to happen:
The agent advertises the job . The applicants must have the required qualifications and experience.
However, once accepted by the agent, the applicants must go on an induction/orientation course in London for 5 days.
The applicants have to pay for the course (around 500 pounds).
The agent says they are not charging job applicants, rather they are
providing a training service.
The profit the agent makes is used to cover the cost of visa applications.
Very crafty! |
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bigdurianthesecond
Joined: 16 Jan 2016
Posts: 62
Location: The Base
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:40 am Post subject: |
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Does sound strange.
Do you have a pulse? Are you breathing?
Answer yes, and you can get a job in Saudi, especially if you're female. |
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Lord T
Joined: 07 Jul 2015
Posts: 285
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:05 am Post subject: |
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The fall in the oil price and war in the region don't help the situation, but I honestly believe the biggest threat to ESL teachers' chances of securing well-paid work in the future will come from the agents/subcontractors.
I know the way they operate, and I saw how they ruined the
tefl industry in parts of S.E. Asia. I believe they are currently doing the same in the Middle East.
Why should a highly qualified and experienced teacher pay good money to attend a 'training course' run by the agent?
The agents recognize this and will avoid offering such people work. Much better to hire inexperienced people and make them pay for more training.
Agents care about making money; nothing else matters to them. |
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