Job Discussion Forums

rafterman23 · Joined: 08 Apr 2015 Posts: 11

Hi everyone! I've been recently really getting into the nitty gritty of looking for a job. I just recently completed my CELTA training (certificate will be coming in the next 2 or 3 weeks.) I'm a white, male, US Citizen, 22 years old, and I just graduated college (a month ago, with high honors) with a degree in Engineering. Unrelated major, yeah, but I'm looking to go out and see the world and travel while getting some work experience for a year or two (f**k me right?) In a perfect world I'd be going to Shenzhen teaching adults, but I realize I don't have much ground to stand on in terms of dictating terms.

I've been getting an enormous amount of conflicting information about everything really. Hell, I've seen a couple websites claim that Dave's ESL Cafe is a scam website where identity thieves post fake ads to steal your info. (Apparently there are whole websites full of blacklists of which sites to not go to.) I'd always thought the cafe was one of the good ones (hopefully still true?) There are whole websites out there detailing all of the ways teachers have been screwed and conned and all. It's really disheartening. I have no idea where to even go anymore to apply for jobs. Pretty much every site I've ever heard of has been blacklisted somewhere as being a scam. Does anyone know any *actually* good sites where it is safe to apply? Or is it all a wash of scams with a few legitimate schools peppered in?

Anyway, its clear that this "two years post-graduate teaching experience" thing is a huge issue for me. I *really* want to go to China, I've visited and I love it there, I studied Chinese for 2 years in University, made many Chinese friends, but the required work experience thing is killing me. I've had two full time jobs in my summers between school (Summer 2014, Summer 2015) and I tutored math and science for my senior year (Fall 2015-Spring 2016), which was a part time job. Then I got my CELTA, now looking for jobs. Clearly this isn't 2 years of post grad work experience, but it is work experience right? I've seen many people on this site and others claim that China is still one of the best places to go (besides Korea maybe) for first time teachers with little teaching experience, but this seems hugely at odds with all of the other people saying that the 2 year requirement has been cut into stone and is checked by Xi Jinping himself. I have just about everything else underway for the bureaucratic quagmire that is the visa process. I'm getting a second copy of my diploma to send around the gamut of getting notarized by everyone.

Oh also, medical checks. Some (like the website of the Chinese Embassy in the US) say I don't need any medical papers to get a Z visa. Other people tell all these stories about getting medical checks before you apply. But there are no official forms (that I've seen) to give to my doctor or anything to fill out, or anywhere that says that I need them, so where is this coming from?

What is your advice? What should I do, where should I look for legitimate jobs? I'm at a complete loss right now.

Laurence · Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 401

Non Sequitur · Joined: 23 May 2010 Posts: 4724 Location: China

Go for Universities of Technology. Your engineering knowledge would be a plus, particularly for students intending to go to the US for post grad.

nomad soul · Joined: 31 Jan 2010 Posts: 11454 Location: The real world

rafterman23 · Joined: 08 Apr 2015 Posts: 11

Non Sequitur · Joined: 23 May 2010 Posts: 4724 Location: China

LarssonCrew · Joined: 06 Jun 2009 Posts: 1308

Regarding the medical. I think the school / employer needs the medical to get you the invite letter for the visa.

Non Sequitur · Joined: 23 May 2010 Posts: 4724 Location: China

I've found that the best approach where information is conflicting, is go with the most onerous condition.
For my last job I recall that the offering school sent me the form and I handed it over with my other papers at my local Chinese consulate. I also sent a completed a copy back to the school. Whether the form was required by the Consulate I don't know. They seemed more interested in collecting my money.
My FAO did some preliminary work on the application before they broke for the holiday, so once I was there they had minimal stuff to complete. That preliminary work included viewing the medical cert.
I recall at a Dalian school we received an FT application with a lengthy description in Latin of an eyesight problem. My FT colleague was asked for an opinion. When the guy turned up he was one click short of being functionally blind. Cool guy though and the students loved him.
There has been chat on Dave's over the last 12m about how to approach the form. My GP just wrote 'normal' wherever there was an unclear question.
Sending you the form is an indication that the school knows the process.

Guerciotti · Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:19 pm Post subject:

With your degree, you could teach precalculus, calculus, physics or perhaps chemistry. Who not teach those subjects, rather than English? You would earn a higher salary. You can find a few universities and many international high schools looking for math and science teachers. You're qualified.

Yes, you qualify for a University of Technology position. This is China. You might teach calculus or something like introductory physics with calc, but you can get hired to do that or something similar.

Your tutoring counts for something. Be flexible. Why teach English when you can make more teaching math and science? You still teach English when you teach math. Who the hell knows what 'asymptotic' means? You can teach them that, and much more.

Disclaimer: Been here six years and tired of teaching English. I am quite happy teaching subjects. Oh, and cheers to all the English teachers. It ain't easy, just not for me any more.

About the medical, when you settle on a school, if they say you need a medical while in the U.S., get one. It's that simple. Just get a physical checkup. They will do it again after you arrive, but that's the way it goes.

Just apply. As you might imagine, now is the time to apply.

rafterman23 · Joined: 08 Apr 2015 Posts: 11

So yes, I always look at positions for math, chemistry, and physics positions (there are usually a lot of ads for AP teachers and such), but, where there are still job ads for English positions that don't require experience / accept 22 year olds, I have yet to see a math or science teaching position (or university position for that matter) that doesn't require 2+ years of experience. Keeping my eyes open, I'll probably still apply to a few anyway, even if they require experience, highlighting my education.

Also, about the 2 years experience, I specifically looked at Shenzhen which is one of my preferred cities, their HRSS bureau (http://www.szhrss.gov.cn/wsbs/kstd/wgzj/200809/t20080918_51407.htm)

"语言教师应具备大学学士学位且具有2年以上语言教育工作经历，原则上应来自母语国家，来自非母语国家的须取得所教授语言母语国大学学士及以上学位。其中具备教育类或师范类学士及以上学位，可免除工作经历的要求；具备非教育类学士及以上学位并取得所在国教师资格证、我局认可的国际语言教学资质证书或TEFL证书的，可免除工作经历的要求。"

There, if my horrible Chinese / Google translate is to be trusted, I found that it says 2 years+ experience is required for language teaching, BUT if you have an appropriate teaching certificate (TEFL cert) then the work experience requirement can be waived. So....good news right?

LarssonCrew · Joined: 06 Jun 2009 Posts: 1308

So here's a Chinese lesson. You don't go straight into a nice job in a first tier city.

You can probably get a job for 10000 and housing in SZ teaching English and working 25 hours a week.

OR you could teach AP in a 2/3rd tier city and make 18000. I know which I would take. Cut your teeth in the lower tier cities then after a few years [where you'll save a shedload and can travel all over SEA in long holidays] you apply to better schools in SZ/SH/BJ if you want.

Non Sequitur · Joined: 23 May 2010 Posts: 4724 Location: China

I think most subject tuition is undertaken by Chinese who teach in this country's native language.
Perverse? - but there is is.

Guerciotti · Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:10 am Post subject:

There are many subject positions open to native speakers, especially math and science.

Non Sequitur · Joined: 23 May 2010 Posts: 4724 Location: China

Generally in international schools which have a sizable expat roll.
International schools (the real ones) generally demand home country registration and of course they pay for that.

rafterman23 · Joined: 08 Apr 2015 Posts: 11

I'm not denying that subject teaching positions exist or are available, they definitely are. I actually just did a quick search of Dave's China job board right now to see. They exist, yes.

But would any of them even look at an application with less than 2 years of experience? None that I've found. (If you know of one / can find one, please show me, I'd love to be wrong.)