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Dedicated
Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 972 Location: UK
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Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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johncoan wrote :
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OOf! Oxford University employee then are you? |
I actually teach one part-time course (not EAP) at Oxford and also at two top London universities.
slapntickle wrote :
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Their English levels are atrocious |
What exactly do you mean by 'atrocious'? To get a Tier 4 student visa they need a minimum IELTS Band 5.5, and most pre-sessional courses expect Band 6.0 or 6.5 to start. Of course, it depends on the university and the degree course.
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...the pass mark is set very low |
Who sets the pass mark? Are there no QAA checks or external examiners? Clearly not at your university.
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I wish we could fail more but we wouldn't get invited back if we did |
It would appear you are a temporary summer teacher. Fail them and then next year apply to teach at a more prestigious or professional place. There are plenty of vacancies advertised on the BALEAP website and jobs.ac.uk.
Is it any wonder English HE is being criticized? |
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slapntickle
Joined: 07 Sep 2010 Posts: 270
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Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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Dedicated wrote: |
What exactly do you mean by 'atrocious'? To get a Tier 4 student visa they need a minimum IELTS Band 5.5, and most pre-sessional courses expect Band 6.0 or 6.5 to start. Of course, it depends on the university and the degree course. |
Not all universities require a 5.5 IELTS . . . some go lower.
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Who sets the pass mark? Are there no QAA checks or external examiners? Clearly not at your university. |
It's set by the DOS.
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It would appear you are a temporary summer teacher. Fail them and then next year apply to teach at a more prestigious or professional place. There are plenty of vacancies advertised on the BALEAP website and jobs.ac.uk. |
Not as easy as this as I'm sure you know. And what's to guarantee getting another job?
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Is it any wonder English HE is being criticized? |
Blame a lack of government funding, along with deregulation of the sector for this criticism. |
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Dedicated
Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 972 Location: UK
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:07 am Post subject: |
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slapntickle wrote:
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Not all universities require a 5.5 IELTS...some go lower |
For a Tier 4 visa for an overseas student leading to the Acceptance of Study (CAS)to study on a pre-sessional course in the UK, leading to a degree, the student must have an IELTS Band 5.5.
https://www.gov.uk/tier-4-general-visa/knowledge-of-english
slapntickle wrote:
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It's set by the DOS |
This almost unbelievable! One person decides on a low pass mark in English into a university degree course? Clearly your university is not accredited or inspected by QAA or the British Council. And you are prepared to go along with this, and return summer after summer knowing this? Wow!
Is it any wonder that faculty members do not give much credence to EAP tutors ? |
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johncoan
Joined: 02 Jul 2010 Posts: 115
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:12 am Post subject: |
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Yeah - that IS pretty shabby. If the DoS sets the pass mark then I can't imagine the type of students they let loose at the end of summer are up to much.
But it's understandable, with the rates of pay typically offered, that teachers return year after year. |
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Dedicated
Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 972 Location: UK
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:58 am Post subject: |
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The rates of pay are generally not that bad, looking at job postings on websites. Many universities are paying 700 pounds + a week, and sometimes free or heavily subsidized accommodation on campus.
The worst pay seems to be 14 pounds an hour at Bristol University! |
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slapntickle
Joined: 07 Sep 2010 Posts: 270
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:00 am Post subject: |
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johncoan wrote: |
Yeah - that IS pretty shabby. If the DoS sets the pass mark then I can't imagine the type of students they let loose at the end of summer are up to much.
But it's understandable, with the rates of pay typically offered, that teachers return year after year. |
Last year at our university we had a 100% pass rate. All teachers were encouraged to pass students. It's scary what is going on. It'd be a challenge for most of these students to flip a burger at McDonald's let alone move onto a degree course. |
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gregory999
Joined: 29 Jul 2015 Posts: 372 Location: 999
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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As Dedicated stated in his post, your university is not accredited or inspected by QAA or the British Council, it looks like a dodgy university, with dodgy staff.
Keep up the 100% pass rate! |
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slapntickle
Joined: 07 Sep 2010 Posts: 270
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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gregory999 wrote: |
As Dedicated stated in his post, your university is not accredited or inspected by QAA or the British Council, it looks like a dodgy university, with dodgy staff. |
Oh, but it is accredited by the BC! Do you really think that is a true mark of quality today? |
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johncoan
Joined: 02 Jul 2010 Posts: 115
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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johncoan wrote: |
But it's understandable, with the rates of pay typically offered, that teachers return year after year. |
Dedicated wrote: |
The rates of pay are generally not that bad, looking at job postings on websites. Many universities are paying 700 pounds + a week, and sometimes free or heavily subsidized accommodation on campus. |
I wasn't suggesting the pay was bad - quite the opposite.
slapntickle wrote: |
gregory999 wrote: |
As Dedicated stated in his post, your university is not accredited or inspected by QAA or the British Council, it looks like a dodgy university, with dodgy staff. |
Oh, but it is accredited by the BC! Do you really think that is a true mark of quality today? |
How do these places get accreditation, then? Inspection/audting, right? A fairly thorough process, I would have thought. BC bods setting up camp for a couple of days, checking files, observing lessons, talking to staff. I've seen it go on. So what goes wrong? |
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Dedicated
Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 972 Location: UK
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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I think the problem lies in the fact that accreditation by the BC goes on during term time. They observe classes and thoroughly check paperwork, teacher qualifications and lesson plans etc as well as speaking to staff. They usually come to universities only once in 4 years and stay for a week.
However, they come September to June and do not visit summer pre-sessional courses (so I was told by one inspector) but just check the curriculum and possibly speak to the pre-sessional coordinator, or whatever they call themselves. Therefore they don't see the teaching or even check the qualifications of summer temporary staff who may have no EAP experience at all.
They write a very comprehensive report which is published where you can read their comments and necessary points of action.
Actually, for universities, a BALEAP inspection and accreditation is more appropriate. |
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slapntickle
Joined: 07 Sep 2010 Posts: 270
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Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:29 am Post subject: |
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johncoan wrote: |
How do these places get accreditation, then? Inspection/audting, right? A fairly thorough process, I would have thought. BC bods setting up camp for a couple of days, checking files, observing lessons, talking to staff. I've seen it go on. So what goes wrong? |
Indeed, a good question. Books can be cooked and things tweaked here and there to give the impression that everything is ship-shape. All I know is that there are teachers on our courses that don't even meet the basic criteria for summer school(ie, no CELTA) and that students who are on our courses do not possess anywhere near the academic ability needed to pursue a degree. It's all a big scam and I feel complicit just by being a part of it. Obviously the BC is not doing the job it should be. What needs to happen is that the regulators need to be regulated. |
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gregory999
Joined: 29 Jul 2015 Posts: 372 Location: 999
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Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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slapntickle wrote: |
It's all a big scam and I feel complicit just by being a part of it. |
Why don't you blow the whistle on their unethical practice?
Why don't you send your concerns to Wikileaks or Panama Papers?
Something must be done to rectify things, be a Whistle blower and clear your conscience.
Dedicated wrote: |
I think the problem lies in the fact that accreditation by the BC goes on during term time. They observe classes and thoroughly check paperwork, teacher qualifications and lesson plans etc as well as speaking to staff. They usually come to universities only once in 4 years and stay for a week. |
Don't they speak to the students, to get feedback from them about the courses?
Once in 4 years! This is not an effective QA system of evaluation of courses? |
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slapntickle
Joined: 07 Sep 2010 Posts: 270
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Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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gregory999 wrote: |
Why don't you blow the whistle on their unethical practice?Why don't you send your concerns to Wikileaks or Panama Papers? Something must be done to rectify things, be a Whistle blower and clear your conscience. |
Would you blow the whistle? What about the references I need to move on and get a new job? There are consequences to blowing the whistle. I mean look what happened to Julian Assange. Maybe I'll get a new job first and then bring this all to light. It makes me sick. |
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