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Longing for Nippon
Joined: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 49
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 Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 11:19 am Post subject: Staying for the longhaul? |
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I worked in Japan for one of the big schools for a year and now find myself back home and missing Japan a great deal.
I would love to return and stay for the forseable future 10+ years. I was hoping any long term gaijin out there could lend advice on the pros and cons of a semi permament stay in Japan. I do have a Japanese girlfriend and we are serious so that may add to the mix further down the line.
I wondered if the happy long term teachers had their own schools and where the job security is outside the big schools? |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 11:40 am Post subject: Re: Staying for the longhaul? |
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| Longing for Nippon wrote: |
I worked in Japan for one of the big schools for a year and now find myself back home and missing Japan a great deal.
I would love to return and stay for the forseable future 10+ years. I was hoping any long term gaijin out there could lend advice on the pros and cons of a semi permament stay in Japan. I do have a Japanese girlfriend and we are serious so that may add to the mix further down the line.
I wondered if the happy long term teachers had their own schools and where the job security is outside the big schools? |
I have been here 17 years, 2 kids and permanent resident. I could tell you my life history but it may not be what you are looking for, as im not you and my goals are different probably
I have it a lot better than a lot of foreigners here (with a few exceptions) but for me the minuses loom larger than the positives. Dark clouds that wont go away you might say.
I am in university teaching which has its on set of problems. I dont think there is ANY job security in university teaching (which is where the money and job status is, but money is not what it used to be) and where I will work and live every few years is a constant worry.
I would probably also dare to say that long termers with their own schools are necessarily happy as they have a 500 kilo NOVA gorilla on each street corner, with more money, deeper pockets and a better marketing plan than Joe-teacher running his own school.
Bit of advice from one who knows
1. Learn and much Japanese as you can. you will need it
2. get as qualified as you can in whatever field that needs people here. No point getting a law degree but cant get a job here. If you are going to work here you need to get qualified in a field that will sustain your life here. For most teachers that means a Masters degree and above
3. Try to save as much as you can and put it into investments, preferably outside Japan. japan is like a house of cards that is going to implode one of these days. houses here are virtually worthless after 15-20 years. my neigbors house is worth 1/3 what it was 10 years ago and he is paying the same mortgage to the bank very month, more than what the apartment is worth.
4. If you plan to have kids, think very carefully about these things
a. what langauge you want them speaking
b. where you want them to go to school and be educated
c. How you will pay for their schooling and education
d. Do you want kids brought up as japanese or americans in japan? I have bilingual daughter who has been home 4 times already but both my kids consider themselves to be Japanese. You have to ensure you speak japanese well enough so you can understand and educate your own kids when they are teenagers.
Having your own school costs money, there is no guarantee of attracting studentsa nd with buying a school all you do is buy yourself a job. No guarantee you can do better than working at NOVA. Also with your own school there is no pension plan, no health insurance, no holidays, flakey employees and LOTs of stress. |
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Sherri
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 749
Location: The Big Island, Hawaii
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| Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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I've been here for almost 14 years and I agree with all of the excellent points made by Paul H. You can have a good life here once you get established and it is easy to keep staying and staying. When I first came here, I thought I would stay for 6 months to a year! But I liked my job and my colleagues and was having a pretty good time.
Now I have 2 young children and I am returning to the USA--Hawaii (HURRAY!!!) in July. It has taken 3 years of careful planning to make the move. The point I want to make is, the longer you stay here, the harder it is to go back. I came here in my late 20s, now I am in my early 40s. Finding a job and getting yourself established in your home country gets very difficult once you have been here a while.
If you end up marrying your girlfriend then you will have to think also about how she would feel going back to your home country and what she would do for work.
So do think very carefully before you decide to stay here for the long haul. All the best whatever you decide.
Sherri |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: Staying for the longhaul? |
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| Longing for Nippon wrote: |
I would love to return and stay for the forseable future 10+ years. I was hoping any long term gaijin out there could lend advice on the pros and cons of a semi permament stay in Japan. I do have a Japanese girlfriend and we are serious so that may add to the mix further down the line.
I |
Assuming you get married, get the coveted permanent resident visa, here are some of the PROS as i see them (Ive had PR since about 1998)
No need to go to immigration to renew your visa
Can do other jobs outside language teaching, assuming you have Japanese language skills and other skills that Japanese are looking for
availability of western/international schools for your kids, but at 1-1.5 million per child per year they are not for the financially challenged
Ability to develop a fairly lucrative career (not just in teaching but other fields) and allows you to travel, make investments, put a down payment on a house even
CONS
Not too many, but high cost of education for kids is a biggie. I have friends with kids in Japanese schools and international schools (my daughter has the benefit of both) and bilingual education will be a looming issue
Being away from your friends family, drinking buddies. I have childhood friends but some of them i havent heard from in over a year as they go on with their own lives back home. If you go home you will be out of touch with their lives too, and people move and die on you.
I think teaching for a year or two is fine, but that is different than marrying raising a family and kids, even buying a house here. You have like teaching enough that you can do it day in day out for a good part of your adult life. I have been teaching low level university classes since 1990 and thats 14 years of NOVA style conversation classes using commercial textbooks etc. can you see yourself doing this into your forties?
westerners in general have a pretty charmed life here, but at the same time its like living in a goldfish bowl. 24-hour gaijin. Sometimes you need to get back home to feel like a normal person and when you are flying with wife and kids it gets expensive.
As Sherri said, when you are 40 and no home country work experience. its harder to relocate home unless you have some transferable skills than just teach English. either gain a paper qualification or certifiable skills, do some extra study or do something that will ease you into the post-Japan experience. You will never knwo when you want to chuck it in here. I have on several occasions. |
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Longing for Nippon
Joined: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 49
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| Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for your replies.
PaulH, your lengthy reply was very interesting.
Do you have to move around Japan continously because your contracts run out at Universities?
The property issue is a problem, Its amazing how it depreciates.
Sherri, enjoy Hawaii!
Any other advice or info you can pass on would be great, Im all ears! |
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Mike L.
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 519
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| Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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Excellent advice. I've only been here 5 yearsbut the previous people are right: it's important to have finnaical goals..
Once you make those and start parking your cash out of the country and make an exit plan, carrer for back home, then you'll at least have a choice to stay or leave.
Make sure you elliminate any debts back home before you start saving!
These steps really gave me piece of mind!
I've seen lots of what I'd call trapped people here, especailly in teaching, married with kids, who are not terribly pleased with their lot in life but can't do much about it!
With all of the downward preassure on teaching sallaries here I think you'd be foolish to consider it as a lifelong career option here.
I'll be leaving in the Spring of 2006! I've been preparing for a year and a half already!
I remember the epiphany to leave came on a very crowded morning train in Tokyo. Train commuting in Tokyo is a curse!!!! |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| Longing for Nippon wrote: |
Thanks for your replies.
PaulH, your lengthy reply was very interesting.
Do you have to move around Japan continously because your contracts run out at Universities?
The property issue is a problem, Its amazing how it depreciates.
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If you are full time and depending on a the university, a non-tenured full time contract (guest lecturer, lecturer etc) will be a one year renewable contract. On average its about 3 years (my last one was three but I got extended a fourth year) but the longest I have heard is 5.5 years before they finally chuck you out. If you are lucky to get tenure they have 3 year contracts with automatic renewals, which means you can stay till the age of 60 barring ethical or legal lapses in your record.
In my case my contract was up but I wanted my kids to go to school in the same area which limited my choices of where I can live and work - other people I know will go all over the country and go where they can find work. One of my colleagues was in Kyushu, Kyoto for 8 years and is now teaching in Shizuoka. He had to move his kids out of school as well- his son has moved about 4 or 5 times by junior high school.
If you are part time its much easier as you can stay at a school indefinitely and just renew your one year contract, while working at several places. Part timers dont get the hours and perks that full timers do though.
As for real estate I came in 1987 at the end of the bubble economy. Somebody said that the land the Imperial palace sits on is worth more than the state of Alberta. Land prices were just crazy. hundreds of thousands of dollars for a square meter of pavement in Ginza.
In Japan it is the land that is valuable, not the houses. Houses here anyway are very shoddily built and not built to last, unlike the US where you have people living in 100 year old houses. In Japan banks lent money on spec. on assumption that land/ prices would keep on going up which they didnt. In the 90's property values fell by half or more, and owners were stuck with loans more than the house is worth. Death duties usually take the rest when the person dies. There is no real sense of property values here and the figures they get seem to so arbitrary. Anyway, many banks will not lend money now as they are so deep in debt with bad loans, its not funny.
Depending on what your goals are you will need to think about things like pension, insurance and investments as well (I put money into investment real estate which is funding my pension plan and/if I return home).
I would agree that paying off debts and loans is a good idea as they attract interest, and interest will negate anything you make over here, if you want to invest or save money.
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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:33 am Post subject: |
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| PAULH wrote: |
| Somebody said that the land the Imperial palace sits on is worth more than the state of Alberta. |
Canada has provinces, not states.
I heard the same thing thing, but that the land was worth more than the state of California. I can't believe that though. |
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Brooks
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1369
Location: Sagamihara
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| Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:26 am Post subject: |
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I have job security where I work. I am at a private high school in Tokyo.
I too am in a relationship with a Japanese woman.
This is my fourth year in Japan.
Unfortunately, my girlfriend doesn`t like Tokyo, so I told her that I can move but that I would like a job where I get at least one bonus a year.
She says that she is flexible, but she is from Osaka and would prefer to be in Kansai or Shikoku (or western Japan)
One thing that is nice is that she doesn`t mind living in the US. In fact she wants to move there in the future. Thing is, she would need to find a job as a Japanese teacher and need to find out if she should get a MA in Japanese or not. She used to study at a translation school, and may go back in the future.
So, if and when we go to the US, we would both need to find jobs, so I guess that it would limit where we would live: west coast, Chicago, New York, etc.
The way it is, it is just easier for me to stay in Japan. If I go back to the US I will need to get certified to teach at public schools in the US. |
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David W
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 457
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| PAULH wrote: |
In Japan it is the land that is valuable, not the houses. Houses here anyway are very shoddily built and not built to last, unlike the US where you have people living in 100 year old houses.
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I take issue with this statement. My house is extremely well built and designed to last. It is worth significantly more than the land on which it sits. I'd put it up against any American, Australian or Kiwi house and it would come out looking good. Watch ya generalisations there chief   |
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Mike L.
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 519
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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Try and sel it tomorrow knock 20-30% you paid the after it's been lived in!
House values drop fastest here!
20-30 years down the road it's considered a liability regardless of how it's built!
Eventually the land will be worth more!!
Also ain't worth more until it's sold for more!!
His genralzations are dead on!!! |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| David W wrote: |
| PAULH wrote: |
In Japan it is the land that is valuable, not the houses. Houses here anyway are very shoddily built and not built to last, unlike the US where you have people living in 100 year old houses.
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I take issue with this statement. My house is extremely well built and designed to last. It is worth significantly more than the land on which it sits. I'd put it up against any American, Australian or Kiwi house and it would come out looking good. Watch ya generalisations there chief |
Your house is just one among thousands. Could be a palace in a dog area for all I know.
I was here when the hanshin earthquake happened and a large majority of the houses that collapsed were under 10 years old. the older ones were left standing. Many of them also lack proper central heating, and TV is full of programs of houses with rotting or loose foundations, sloping floors and cracks in the walls.
I have neigbors in condominiums which are worth a third of what they paid for them 15 years ago. |
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David W
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 457
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike L. wrote: |
Try and sel it tomorrow knock 20-30% you paid the after it's been lived in!
House values drop fastest here!
20-30 years down the road it's considered a liability regardless of how it's built!
Eventually the land will be worth more!!
Also ain't worth more until it's sold for more!!
His genralzations are dead on!!! |
Well if you had cared to read my post carefully I made no mention of what I could sell my house for as I have no intention of selling it. The reference to the cost of the house compared to the value of the land was in reference to the idea that you get what you pay for. Nothing more. |
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David W
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 457
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| PAULH wrote: |
| David W wrote: |
| PAULH wrote: |
In Japan it is the land that is valuable, not the houses. Houses here anyway are very shoddily built and not built to last, unlike the US where you have people living in 100 year old houses.
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I take issue with this statement. My house is extremely well built and designed to last. It is worth significantly more than the land on which it sits. I'd put it up against any American, Australian or Kiwi house and it would come out looking good. Watch ya generalisations there chief |
Your house is just one among thousands. Could be a palace in a dog area for all I know.
I was here when the hanshin earthquake happened and a large majority of the houses that collapsed were under 10 years old. the older ones were left standing. Many of them also lack proper central heating, and TV is full of programs of houses with rotting or loose foundations, sloping floors and cracks in the walls.
I have neigbors in condominiums which are worth a third of what they paid for them 15 years ago. |
Have you had a house built in Japan Paul? |
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Mike L.
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 519
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I take issue with this statement. My house is extremely well built and designed to last. It is worth significantly more than the land on which it sits. |
I would say this would mean resale value not what you payed for it!
If not, cool! |
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