Job Discussion Forums

[leggeymountbatten]

I have noticed BAE are advertising for direct hire teachers in Riyadh and Dhahran.
I have heard conflicting accounts about the desirability, or otherwise, of working for BAE.
Can somebody give a definitive answer - is the money worth it??
Thanks,
Leggey

[scot47]

Can you put a price on maintaining your sanity ?

[Lord T]

Yes, the adverts for these jobs are always professional and give the impression that they will hire only the very best.

In reality the agent is looking for someone who appears relatively sober and sane. The agent passes the teacher on to BAE and takes his commission.

The teacher arrives at BAE and is left to his own devices to deal with the chaos that surrounds him.

A familiar story, I believe.

[leggeymountbatten]

Lord T - that seems to chime with other reports that I have had about BAE.
I received information that the Induction process both in Preston in the UK, and in Saudi itself are chaotic to say the least.
The impression I have received is that the BAE organisation is too big for its own good. There is little coordination between management and departments, and as you say, teachers are just left to get on with it at the sharp end dealing with very difficult cadets.
I also heard that the sick rate among teachers is very high. To be honest, it sounds like a very stressful gig.
I would be pleased however to know more because I understand that the pay is rather good.
That is my question I guess - is it worth it? But Scot47 I think has probably provided the answer to that.

[sheikh radlinrol]

[Lord T]

A teacher who recently left after working there 7 years told me that many of the direct hires had been replaced by teachers recruited by agents.

He said the new teachers were fine, but that there was nobody prepared to organise them. This led to the sort of chaos I mentioned.

That's his view of the situation, there will be others, of course.

[sicklyman]

[dragonpiwo]

I've got 2 pals there now. Tough gig. Very early start in the morning and the usual chaos and difficult trainees. Both of my pals have a game plan, which is 2 or 3 years max and out.
One of my friends, who is normally fit, has said he's too tired to exercise after a shattering day.
It's the usal Gulf relationship of top money=tough job.

[sheikh radlinrol]

[scot47]

Judging by the number of bars on BAe compounds I would say that "being driven to the bottle" is conscious HR policy.

[sicklyman]

[izmigari]

[desertfox]

I did a recent stint at the Technical Studies Institute (TSI) for BAE at Dhahran.

1. The days were extremely long and tiring. The bus from the compound left at 5.45am and returned there at 4pm. The norm is 6 lessons a day, some do more depending upon the variables of the teaching timetable. The student cadets are, on the whole, challenging and difficult. The levels are very low. Fights in the classroom between cadets tend to happen all too frequently. a large percentage of the classes are remedial - the cadets are not natural language learners. To be fair, if you give them the time of day individually, they are ok. One has a degree of sympathy with them as people. But, as a collective, they do not make a pretty sight.

2. Cadets sleeping in class is a major problem at TSI. It is not just laziness. they appear completely out on their feet. They are often impossible to rouse. You have to make them stand up (if you can) or send them to an officer by issuing them with a chit. Classroom management takes up about 95% of the teachers time and energy - the teaching part of it is relegated to irrelevance.

3. If a cadet is seen sleeping by a senior teacher or an officer, the teacher can be, and is, held liable for it. I knew one case where a teacher received a "Notice of Non-Compliance." This is effectively a warning for allowing a cadet to sleep in class. If a teacher receives 3 of these, he can be sacked without further ado. The corridors are patrolled daily by senior teachers and sometimes by officers. The sleeping problem is an epidemic. This does not make TSI a very comfortable place to work. You feel as if you are constantly being monitored. In short, you are put into an almost impossible situation.

4. TSI is poorly managed, I would argue, by both the Saudi military and BAE. The cadets are woken up very early in the mornings, 3.30am appears to be the norm, and are put through a punishing schedule of marching, press ups, anything punitive. They then arrive at 6.30am to the classroom and are expected to put in a full days academic study. Many are not in any state to absorb anything, that alone a foreign language - hence the problems the teachers have to contend with.

5. It is as if the whole place is designed to set teachers up to fail. The management now even want to extend the working hours on Thursdays (presently an early 1pm finish) to bring Thursdays into line with the rest of the week. Increased hours, and the imminent privatization of teachers contracts, doesn't make for an attractive option for potential new recruits.

In my view, it is the sort of the place where one would grow old quickly. The compound is nice, but does not nearly compensate for the horrors of the job. Ditto the money.

[Lord T]

I assume desertfox that you are British and were either a direct hire or hired by a recruiter.

Did the person/people that hired you give you any indication of the sort of problems you would encounter at BAe?

I know there is an induction in the UK before you fly out, did they tell you about the disciplinary procedures that you may be subjected to in the event of students being caught sleeping in your classes?

Do you feel that you have been let down by BAe and/or the recruiting agents?

[scot47]

Desertfox tells the story the way I heard it over long periods in KSA wher I worked for more civilised employers. When I posted warnings in the forum it was suggested that I was jealous because of the huge salaries paid by BAe. No thanks. Not for me.