Job Discussion Forums

[Noelle]

Hi everyone

I spent three years in the Gulf (in Oman) and this topic did not come up once. There was no reason for it to, but it never occurred to me that my students there may not have ever even heard of Hitler, Nazis or a holocaust event.

So I'm back in the States, teaching in a program with numerous Saudis, as well as students from Asia, Europe and Latin America. This topic has come up and the students in the class who are not from KSA are appalled that the Saudis either don't know about it or 'act like they don't know' (as one European student accused today).

I have no idea what to say/do-- except to avoid the whole topic completely in class. But we have students who are Jewish (as well as two teachers) and this topic appears in textbook readings, films and even some TOEFL lectures in the class.

It came up today in my class as we watched the film- Freedom Writers. Anyhow-- a little input here? I'm posting on the Saudi forum because most of my Gulf students here are Saudi. I've read about "holocaust denial", but confess I don't know much about it. I'm inclined to think this is not denial but a true lack of awareness, which of course is not the fault of the students.

Now they're learning all this vocabulary in a context that is totally meaningless to them, all the while feeling like everyone else in the class is 'in on' some big historical conspiracy they never heard of.

Some thoughts on this? Note: these students are part of K.A.S.P. (King Abdullah Scholarship Program). I thought they got an orientation in KSA before coming over here-- if so, perhaps they need to be warned of this too?

[izmigari]

Your Saudis are VERY aware of Hitler, WW II AND the Holocaust.

I've taught SCORES of 'em who liken Hitler to a folk hero.

Where I teach Saudis, they become incensed when I mention everyday occurrences in the "Kingdom of Humanity"...so aware of how aberrant their chosen lifestyle is.

Yeah. They know.

[nomad soul]

[Noelle]

Thanks for the quick replies.

These topics are not off limits. We talk about everything here-- especially in advanced courses where Ss are evaluated using a Blooms Taxonomy style rubric (that's a topic for a whole other thread). We've covered LGBT issues, immigration, terrorism, prostitution-- NOTHING is off limits here except for religion in the class, which is actually allowable if students decide to discuss it and the teacher gives no input. Our program is on the campus of Univ. of California-- gov't funded, and the neighborhood is heavily Jewish.

Our dept. head will tell us to press forward with these 'polarizing' topics.

Nomad Soul- what did you mean by do some 'homework' of your own?

My concern is not really for the Saudis or other Gulf students. If they're offended, then they just have to learn to deal with it. They've been a majority at our campus for years and they're always offended by something.

My concern is for the other students in the class-- I think they genuinely believe the Gulf students are denying that the Holocaust happened. I kind of want to explain to them that there are certain taboos in that part of the world and that Saudis can't be expected to just slide easily into a conversation about such a thing amongst other nationalities who take the same view that we do.

Weird, this. I've been working with Gulf students for almost six years now- 3 in the Gulf and nearly 3 in the States. Several of my co-workers have also taught over there. None of us have ever given this topic any thought until very recently...!

[nomad soul]

[Noelle]

Noted. Thanks!

Yes- I'd read about Holocaust denial being a 'western thing' and never saw it as something the Gulf would give much thought to either way.

The film which opened up pandora's box here (Freedom Writers) was actually shown to Omani students at SQU during club meeting for students after classes sometime back in 2014 .I remember several of my students writing about it and even mentioning a trip to the Holocaust Museum in CA, as seen in the film, in their writing. This was the only time I ever heard of the incident mentioned by a Gulf student. My experience with this demographic is limited, I will admit, when compared with other teachers.

Saudis are not Omanis-- and the idea of a 'Museum of Tolerance' such as the one here in California very well may be a lost concept to them. As I typed my last response, I received an email from a student from that class today (a very conservative lady who covers up to her eyes while here) asking that we 'not discuss these topics again or she would like to be excused'.

I suspect this is because of the other students' reactions. Feeling a bit like I've put my fist through a beehive here. But I will read up on this issue a bit more, as it relates to the Arabian Gulf. Sadly-- our Gulf students are bombarded with a lot of Zionistic propaganda right here on our campus:( We try to teach critical thinking skills, but it's hard when our own culture doesn't practice what it preaches.

[In the heat of the moment]

Surely part of a cultural exchange is being exposed to other cultures and viewing them objectively; it's a choice whether to be offended or not (and being offended at others' lack of knowledge on a particular subject seems to be very narrow minded).

For example; I won't get offended if people don't know about the extermination of teachers in Mao's China and Stalin's Russia, nor do I (being of Polish Catholic ancestry) get offended if people aren't aware many Polish were also killed in Nazi camps. Those two examples aren't given the publicity the Holocaust is (rightly, of course) in our culture, just as others aren't in other cultures.

If I were in a classroom in this instance - with some strongly-opinionated students - I would tread very carefully and seek guidance from the school's management. I'm not an international Peace Keeper nor do I get paid to be one, that the school has chosen to accept the funding of ME students in a heavily Jewish area and not temper the literature to suit the classroom dynamics is not my fault.

[veiledsentiments]

Noelle... a large proportion of Middle Easterners are not only strong Holocaust deniers, but during WW2 were supporters of Hitler. With the advent of Israel, these attitudes have strengthened. The "Protocols of Zion" were (and may still be) taught in the schools in KSA and elsewhere in the Gulf.

As to your Saudi woman who demands her exemption, I would discuss it with your supervisors first, but I would sit that woman down and just tell her that she is in the US now and doesn't get to decide what is or isn't taught in the classroom. She can choose not to attend, but she will be counted absent and be responsible for anything that might be in exams.

When I was teaching pre-foundations in Cairo at AUC, we had a couple of Saudi girls who brought their daddies to the department to demand that they get female-only classes. They were told that all classes at AUC were integrated and if they can't accept that, they probably can't attend this university. They decided to stay and by the end of their first semester were used to the idea.

Another problem is that Saudi students are often used to setting the rules in their own schools.

VS

[I-forgot]

I teach at what is considered a good, competitive university in KSA. My students are only vaguely aware of the Second World War. They cannot say when it happened or who was involved. They are not familiar with the term 'holocaust'.

This is just not something that is taught in Saudi high schools. The little that they know has been framed as background information to the creation of the state of Israel. Or has come from watching too many Hollywood movies. It is not part of the school syllabus.

Incidentally, History is considered a Mickey Mouse degree in Saudi. If you study that subject, you probably only just managed to scrape your way into university here.

Noelle, your students just haven't been given this information before. I would suggest asking them what they know about WWII and then giving them a no-nonsense precis along the lines of '60-70 miillion people killed in total - 20-25m Russians, 15m Chinese, 8m German. Some groups such as the disabled and Jewish were specifically targeted - 6m Jews killed out of the European pre-war population od 9.5m'. That gives them enough context for the classroom. Tell them to google if they want more information.

[In the heat of the moment]

Obviously only a tiny representation but so is a few students from the Middle East: http://www.guns.com/2016/05/09/americans-lack-of-wwii-knowledge-is-downright-sad-video/

[MI6agent]

The Saudis get their information about the holocaust from their Mufti and clerics:
Saudi Cleric Slaman Al-Odeh: The Holocaust Is A Sacred Myth
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2012/08/saudi-cleric-slaman-al-odeh-the-holocaust-is-a-sacred-myth-2453558.html

[scot47]

Few students from Saudi will be clued up on the versions of 2oth century World History familiar to Westerners. They see the world from their own perspective.

[izmigari]

[scot47]

I am not sure that the average student in the US or UK is any more clued up. They might have heard of the Holocaust but what other aspects of World History have they been exposed to ?

[Noelle]

I really appreciate all the replies to this topic. It's been an eye-opening week for me at work. And it's only Thursday.

Since I last posted here, that female student I mentioned has been to see our coordinator about this-- to complain. Naturally, this did not work out in her favor and it is possible that she will either be absent today, or maybe even go further and drop out of the program. I was told that under no circumstances are we to select materials/themes or topics based on preferences or potential issues for this Gulf population(or any other student group)- period.

So... here is what I've decided to do about my classes:

1.) Highlight historical 'injustices committed against others' by America's gov't/military (i.e. annexation of Mexico, nuclear bomb on Japan and our treatment of Japanese-Americans in the U.S. etc...) and how our own schools often sanitize this history

2.) Use holocaust references in context with any other type of historical discrimination and/or violence against others (i.e. Crusades, Jim Crow laws & the KKK, Rwanda genocide, struggle of Rohingya's in Burma etc...)

3.) Have ALL Ss learn the origin of the word 'propaganda' and research/analyze its meaning in varied dictionaries including the urban dictionary online

Synthesizing is one of the required student learning outcomes for this level/group, and so they are going to get their fill of sources to work with during the coming weeks.

Btw, I mentioned Oman in a previous post (comparing my SQU students to Saudis), and I've since discussed this with a former co-worker from Muscat now teaching at Zayed. She said that both her Omani and Emirati students have blatantly shown hostility in the past to any mention of 'yahoodi' or their struggle during WWII. One ZU student apparently threatened to have another teacher fired over this.

This is obviously a Gulf or even perhaps general Middle Eastern student issue, and perhaps I was hasty to post this only to the Saudi forum. In any case, thanks everyone-- for the input, links and suggestions.