Job Discussion Forums

[RiverMystic]

How many of you have ever successfully negotiated your salary and conditions for the better? Like a lot of westerners, I tend to feel bad about negotiating and haggling. I did it reluctantly for my previous two positions. In the first I got an extra 2000, and in the most recent about the same.

I just got offered a pretty good job, decent salary, at a foreign university in southern China. The salary, though, is still about 3000 less than what I stated in the interview (they asked me in the interview - rather awkward ). But there is no housing. In the city where I will live it will probably cost me 3000-4000 for a biggish apartment.

I think I will try to squeeze another couple of grand out if them, either by asking for the some rent coverage, or just for them to pay me what I asked in the interview.

Anybody had any bad experiences negotiating salary? What are some dos and don'ts in negotiations? I certainly don't want to get off on the wrong foot or stuff up the job altogether, as it's a very good job by most estimates.

My dos: 1) Base requests on specific needs, e.g. housing, cost of medical insurance etc. 2) Mention your previous jobs or other similar positions that you know of, where salary is what you are asking.

My don'ts: 1) Don't make threats 2) Don't be aggressive, but firm.

What about social insurance? How many of you take it? If you don't take it, your salary goes up a bit, maybe 700 or so as far as I can gather. Is it worth it?

RM[/i]

[Non Sequitur]

Timing-wise it's best to ask at the time they want you to re-sign. At my last school it was asked as: 'What are your intentions for next year?'
A bit oblique, but clearly they wanted to open the discussion.
Some things are easy to provide like a better apartment - if current occupant is leaving.
I also suggest breaking up the request into smaller packages. A bit on salary, paid medical insurance and say an extra 2k travel - especially if your current allowance doesn't pay what is costs. Be able to show your Travel Agent receipt.
If you know items that Chinese teachers get and you don't then those aren't big hurdles for your school.

[talentedcrayon]

You always need a walk-away-point when it comes to negotiating.

If the salary you asked for in the interview was your walk away point, then make sure they understand that. If they won't budge, find a different job.

[Non Sequitur]

Need to keep in mind the difference between 're-signing' and 'signing up'.
In the re-sign' situation they have opened the discussion which they wouldn't do unless they wanted you.
In that situation first cab must be paid summer holiday.

[wangdaning]

The OP is about signing up, not sure where the other things come into play in that situation.

It is normal to bring up salary in an interview. It is also common to put it in your cover letter if you are experienced. You have a certain standard. I would not bring up the pay at previous jobs, it is a sign that you move around, if you left a job that paid what you want what makes you want to work for us?

I would use the housing issue to get there. Just say housing is really a big cost and you are not sure you can find a suitable place with the salary offered. Housing is a universal issue so they are likely to understand that.

[Non Sequitur]

My point is that it is a two-stage situation. You'll get some of the things you want at sign-up and there will be other items that you can work on at re-sign time.
At sign-up the biggie will always be housing, especially in you're coming to China for the first time.
At sign-up and if you intend to haggle for everything, you must have back up offers AND time to go through the process before start date.

[wangdaning]

[Non Sequitur]

Thank you Head Prefect

[RiverMystic]

[LarssonCrew]

I suspect with it becoming more and more likely to find qualified expats who are willing to go through it all that more and more people will able to pull off what they want in negotiations.

I have learned this term that if you are in a rush you're in a hole and have to take something bad.

This time around I knew I had 3-4 months to find a job, whatever I want. It allowed me to spread out 5-6 offers[I put them all in a spreadsheet, and mapped out my likely time spent in school i.e. if they wanted morning and evening classes I wrote it all on, or if they said 18 university classes anytime from 8-5 throughout the week I randomly picked times and slotted them in], I also then wrote down salary, any tax, housing etc. and also holidays.

I was then able to whittle it down and ended up with two, one I would have taken as it was and one that I liked but paid light, I asked for a higher salary, they refused so I went with the other one. The other one came back two weeks later offering what I wanted but by that point the other was already processing my visa. Shame.

I think alot of Chinese feel they lose weight if they give a higher salary, however they're more likely to give side freebies, which most Chinese get anyway. You could even ask for a 'traveling allowance' which would essentially top you up by 500, or ask for 500 towards your bills, more for visa etc. It's all money but they feel they aren't losing as much face because they restricted you to 13000 or whatever

[adventious]

[wangdaning]

Lawyers demand high salaries as ESL teachers.

[JeremyDay]

I was able to negotiate 2000 RMB extra per month. However, any attempt at extras (days off, upfront airfare reimbursement, etc.) were almost angrily turned down.

[Non Sequitur]

[JeremyDay]

That's correct. Sign up. However, the airfare I tried to negotiate was upon arrival with first check. So far, I've put a lot of skin in the game and it feels like they haven't done much.

Of course, I'm not sure what they pay or do on their side applying for the working permit, etc.