Job Discussion Forums

[Twizman]

An English teacher in China told me that the z visa process has changed since November 16'. Apparently there are lots of changes. I will need to notarize or translate my degree? Can anyone help clear up the changes to documentation requirements to obtain the visa?

She also said that nationwide policy beginning in April 2017 will be two years teaching experience as a requirement. Is this two years work experience or specifically teaching? She said this is not an issue however if the school has guanxi.

What is the penalty for not having the two years experience? I read on here that this is enforced in the big tier 1 cities, but not in the medium and smaller cities. Will my visa application be denied, or could I face a fine or even deportation if caught? I'm a fresh graduate, just finished the master of teaching.

One last question, she recommended I go after international schools. The reasons were I'm qualified with my master, they pay better, accomodation and health cover provided, more professional and experienced teachers supporting you, good weekday hours and holidays, better resources and training. Would you recommend going after international schools in my applications, or instead casting as wide a net as possible?

I would really appreciate any assistance, thanks for your time.

[nomad soul]

[Twizman]

Hi nomad. I asked a vice principal on my teaching placement about 'a friend interested' in working overseas. He said probably better to first get Australian experience. But overseas experience is also considered a positive. In the end, I don't really want to live in the western world, though it's good to have the option of returning in future.

I decided from my research that it seems overall not worth obtaining a tefl or related qualification. The reason is that I have a master of teaching, and many schools don't state tesol as a requirement (or they will pay for it on arrival). My specialization was primary teaching. I don't have any teaching experience aside from my placements.

[nomad soul]

[Tazz]

On a previous thread you posted-on 20th Nov, [9 days ago..] that after talking with your mum you had decided to stay put and get the experience in Oz?

[Twizman]

[nomad soul]

[joe30]

Twizman, IMO you should go abroad straight away, forget about teaching in the west. I'm doing exactly the same (currently doing a PGCE, when it's done I'll be out of the UK before the ink dries on the parchment).

It is true that some places won't consider your application without two years experience, either because of school policy or visa policy. I've found that out myself while making job applications recently. But it's not going to be blanket rejections unless you're only applying to the best schools. I've got a couple of interviews for schools in China and Thailand lined up, and both pay more than I'd get in the UK as an NQT even though they're not 'first tier' schools. Both countries are also a lot more desirable to live in than the UK too.

It's not like your teaching certificate is somehow worthless if you don't stay for those two years back home. You're still going to be on significantly more money than you would be with just a BA. In Thailand for example, with a BA and nothing else I'd be on about 40,000 baht a month. Maybe 50,000 if I was really lucky. Salaries for those with a teaching licence however start at 80,000 even in the rubbish tier international schools - a significant increase. Yes, it's true that the top tier schools pay more than this - around 130,000 a month plus accomodation. But firstly, getting into those schools even AFTER having two years of western curriculum experience is still a huge ask, and secondly, the effect of taxes means earning more money after a certain point doesn't enhance your life as much.

Lastly, these first tier international schools expect a LOT of work from you. Personally I didn't get into teaching to be working myself like crazy. I don't share that western idea that one should 'work until the job is done'. As far as I'm concerned 8 hours in the day is quite enough to be working, and I won't be doing a minute longer. I'd rather be earning less and doing less, and you won't find that balance at most first tier schools.

Also keep in mind that what employers 'want to see', and what they'll ultimately accept when push comes to shove are two different things. If life in Australia is anything like life in the UK then it's utterly crap and boring, and you'll do well to remove yourself from that situation ASAP.

[getbehindthemule]

I second joe30
While Nomad, who is very knowledgeable and a poster that I respect on this forum, has your best interests at heart if you want a career in IE. Not everybody wants to work there asses off in a top tier international school.
I've worked in middle and senior management positions in industry prior to moving towards teaching. I had given some serious consideration to obtaining licensure over the past couple of years but after much research I've decided against it. I don't want to teach in the west and I left industry to get away from the stress and am very happy in my role as a public school Science teacher (3 years now). Also, as Joe30 stated, I find life somewhat boring in Ireland.
I was actually hired by an international school and based at this 'experimental public school' that it manages. I couldn't have been treated better here to date to be honest.
You get one life, do what makes you happy, not everybody is the same! A few posters on here just can't see outside of their own little bubble. This is an ESL forum not a forum like International Schools Review for example so lighten up a little
OP, You can get a nice position in China for sure. I know several International School teachers over here who are worked to death and while they may be on more money than me, it's def not worth it imo.
Anyway...just my ramblings...and I just want to wish you the best of luck!

One thing I will add is the 2 year experience rule (as you specifically asked about this). This rule may be becoming nationwide but it's difficult to know for sure. I don't think it was clear in your post whether you have sufficient work experience or not?
It doesnt have to be teaching but teaching related, training, coaching, etc. all add towards this.
A school with guanxi will usually be able to bypass this anyway, although this may be becoming a thing of the past, but the again TIC...so who knows! Sorry that I can't be of more help on this, GL

[Twizman]

Thanks joe30 and getbehindthemule. You have been a wonderful help, I appreciate the insights as to the differences working in international schools. I worked for two years in another field which involved some teaching, and have done sports coaching. Thanks also nomad for your advice.

Life balance is more important to me. I want to continue my hobbies including sports which I've noticed so many of my older friends relegate on beginning a full time career and family.

Sounds like maybe medium size city position with an above average starting salary (12k rmb per month?) could be a good option for me. Yes it is very boring here in Aus too, haha. One of many reasons I want to experience a new beginning. Not sure how I will explain the decision to my parents when I visit them over Xmas : )

[getbehindthemule]

[joe30]

You'll get way more than 12k RMB a month if you have a teaching licence.

I'd say by all means work in an international school, but don't neccesarily be gunning for the 'first tier' ones.

For example, in China, the best international school (and also the highest paying) is ISB Beijing. You'll not get into there without at least 2 years experience. However, as they're the highest payers, they also expect an awful lot of work. You can check out a fairly recent salary scale here: http://www.isb.bj.edu.cn/uploaded/ISB/Join_Us/Work_With_Us/docs/ISB-2015-2016-Faculty-Salary-Schedule.pdf. Minimum net salary of 346,000rmb a year, or 29,000 a month. They pay all Chinese taxes, and you'll get a 14,000rmb a month housing allowance too (taking total comp to 43,000rmb net AT THE MINIMUM).

For sure, an extremely nice salary. But a lot of work.

Now take a school that might be regarded as a second tier place. Still decent, but not the absolute top. Chances are you could get into this kind of place without prior western teaching experience, though you might need to spend a couple of years in a third tier place first (i.e. international school in the middle of nowhere, or a bilingual private school). I'm going to use SCIS Shanghai as an example of this sort of school. Their salaries and benefits can be viewed here: https://www.scis-his.org/employment/compensation-and-benefits

So, what's our minimum here? $38,000 a year, $3,000 for travel, and $1250 retirement money. Coming to $42250 (290,000RMB), plus 110,000RMB a year for housing. That's 400,000RMB a year, or 33,000RMB a month, and just like ISB Beijing, it's net of taxes.

So ISB pays 43,000rmb a month, but a second tier place pays 33,000rmb a month. A significant difference, but there's the argument to be had that the extra work you have to do at the first tier place is not worth having an extra 10,000 a month - especially when 33,000 is still a very nice amount to live on (the utility of extra money gets less the more you make). You also have to weigh up the serious disadvantages of having to stay in the west, both in terms of quality of life and opportunity cost in terms of earnings for two years (in the UK at least teachers are paid peanuts, not sure about Australia).

Personally, for me, the choice is clear - I'd rather earn less and be a worse teacher if it means I don't have to tolerate living 2 more years in the west. I'm happy to take the career hit to get out early. Each individual has to decide what's most important for them, however.

[getbehindthemule]

And don't focus too much on salary, think package!
A few posters (me inc.) harp on about this but I feel it's so relevant!
For example, my rent allowance covers my rent in SH, I get full pay for over three months of the year when I'm not working, substantial airfare allowance and medical care costs refunded.
As joe30 detailed, if you're licensed don't settle for 12k. I couldn't recommend enough working in a public school over an international school though but each to their own (salary not being as good of course). I wish you luck and keep us posted