Job Discussion Forums

[backtochina2017]

I worked in China for 4 years and returned to my home country 1.5 years ago. So, my Z visa is no longer living through the residence permit extensions. I need to apply from scratch and get a new one.

I am learning that the physical is a lot more expensive. In China, I would just pay something like 600rmb when I went to a new province. However, in the US, I am being told I need to take tests that the US requires as well as what is in the Chinese forms. I have been told it could be $700-$800 in total (not taking into account any insurance plans a teacher may have). I have also been told that this is the same if you were to apply for a tourist L visa.

Does this sound accurate for a physical in the US for a Z visa? If I have to pay my dues and bite the bullet I guess I will. I was just surprised by this rise in costs.

Another option, if available, would be if the L visa was less expensive maybe a Hong Kong trip to get the Z visa would be possible too. Does anyone know about this? I would get a more thorough physical in China and then apply for the Z visa.

I am a veteran, so money and security of a job is not a worry for me. In my case, I can easily go to the school and see if it is what I want and if not find another school without being tied down to the Z visa.

Is that possible now or are the restrictions so tight it's not worth gambling over?

The second issue has to do with a reference/recommendation letter. I don't have any contact info of my previous school and recruiters and schools are asking for a letter as if I was still in China changing jobs. They have given me a form to give my previous school to fill out but I don't have their contact info and in the past the new school I went to always got this sorted.

Had I known I would need one, I would have gotten one. However, I feel like I am being punished because first time Z visa applicants never had to provide such a letter. They never had a previous employer in theory.

How necessary are these letters? Are the recruiters and schools correct or are they just making things more difficult for no reason?

[hz88]

In relation to the medical costs in the USA, I am not totally sure. In the UK to complete all the tests is in the region of 350GBP so I would not be at all surprised at the figures you have quoted.

There have been several threads by other posters which seem to fit in with what you are saying.

You will need to get one if you are intending on coming to China with a Z visa already processed. There is no other way except with a few unconfirmed and uncertain exceptions of Beijing and Shanghai. The most annoying thing is that you will have to take another health check locally anyway once you arrive to satisfy the local authorities.

About arriving on a L/F visa and then going to Hong Kong, again many posts about this which should give you the answer.

Firstly, make sure that if you do that, that it is actually possible in the province where you are intending to work that you can apply for a z visa in Hong Kong. It is not possible in some provinces and you would need to return home to do it.

As I said in my answers to a recent poster in a similar predicament, there are too many variables to consider and each situation is different. If you don't want the risk of a runaround or troubles later then wait for the z visa, if you are willing to take the risk, then that risk later lies with you if it goes belly up.

Regarding the release letters, if what you said is correct and you returned home and your last resident permit had expired then there should be no need for them. Given the time frame you are quoting then any foreign experts certificate should have expired too. Therefore there should be no difficulty in processing a new application for you. Your record should be released and not blocked.

I suspect who you have been speaking with is just going on to auto pilot mode and is not actually aware that you have an 18 month gap between your last job. Politely inform them that you finished your contract, you left at the end of your resident permit and you no longer have contact with your old school.

If they still insist then mention what I said above, inform them that they should be processing an online application for a NEW Z visa, not a renewal or transfer and that there will be no need to upload copies of a release letter as you are not in China and outside the 12 month window. Hinting that you have been told from another school that it is not needed because of this will soon get them to change their minds.

These letters are fundamental especially the cancellation of your existing foreign experts certificate if you are transferring jobs or have recently ended a contract and are applying (be it inside or outside China).

The general rule of thumb with the new system is that it checks the data of new applicants in a certain order:

a) Name, Passport number, DOB is checked against the national database. If an existing foreign experts certificate is found, the application will be suspended until the previous foreign experts certificate is canceled, the certificate of cancellation uploaded and the record updated by the issuing office. This can only take place once the original book has been returned to the issuing office.

Once the above is completed, the existing application will be logged off and your record is then open for other schools to apply for an FEC.

b) If no FEC is found, it then checks for resident permits, if an active resident permit is found, it will ask for a copy of the most recent resident permit (and in some instances a copy of every page of the passport) to be uploaded for manual review.

Depending on the response once this review has taken place will depend on whether the application can proceed. The range of situations here is too verbose to list but generally it will require some other documents from the school.

c) If neither active FEC or RP are found, then the new school can proceed with the application and it will not ask for a release letter or FEC cancellation notice as the system has identified the applicant as not currently or recently being employed.

[backtochina2017]

Just to clarify, I am referring to what I understand as being the recommendation letter or reference letter, not the release letter. My understanding is that these are 2 different letters. A release letter I understand as being a document you get at the PSB or the PSB related with the employer. I know there is a separate place employers have to go to and I actually went to Shijiazhuang and picked up a document which listed my passport number (not FEC info).

The letter of recommendation I also have some experience with because I had to bring one to a new school and the old school filled out the letter wrong. It had two halves to it. One was release info at the top with school school, and then at the bottom was comments. The form I received this week is similar but not exactly the same nor divided into 2 parts.

Anyway, the FEC has expired and my residence permit was until July 2015.

Does anyone know if Henan allows Hong Kong Z visa runs? To add to it, I might also go to Harbin and one school wanted me to go first and teach a winter camp. Sounded obviously shady, but it would be nice regardless to know a list of what major cities allow and which don't allow a visa run to Hong Kong. In 2013 another teacher, not native English speaker, was able to go to HK for a job in Hebei. In his case, his previous residence permit expired and he was on a tourist visa at the time. It took like 2 days I think, if not the 4 mentioned a lot.

[hz88]

There are usually three letters that you need, essentially if you are transferring jobs or are still in possession of an active resident permit, these are foreign experts cancellation letter, letter of recommendation (reference) and a release letter.

The first I have explained, the reference letter is what it says, just a few lines from your most recent employer stating that you have completed your contract etc and the release letter which states the school have released you from their records and are no longer responsible for you.

The only one of these that needs PSB involvement and stamping is the FEC cancellation letter. The other two are provided and stamped by your last school.

It may well be they are just so used to asking for these documents that as I said they are on auto pilot. If you were at the transfer or renewal stage, these documents would be needed and have to be uploaded.

You are beginning a NEW application therefore are not. What is required is a reference from a recent employer. On the application system for new applicants this falls under the 'additional documents' category and is not one of the key documents needed. Some provinces may review your application and then refer it back requesting this. In this situation you have the option to provide a reference from any employer on your resume history.

I would simply explain that you no longer have contact with the school (if it was a training center you could say they have ceased operations etc) and reiterate that this is a new application.

Otherwise you are going to have to try and make contact with your former employer and request this. You could ask your prospective employer to make contact with them if it is easier or you. If you left in good standing then I don't anticipate any issues, if not you could be in for a tough ride.

However as the rules stand, they are not 'key' documents for a new application, which yours will be.

[backtochina2017]

"Otherwise you are going to have to try and make contact with your former employer and request this. You could ask your prospective employer to make contact with them if it is easier or you. If you left in good standing then I don't anticipate any issues, if not you could be in for a tough ride."

That's the silly thing about all this. I am in the USA, not China. My recruiter and school are in China.

They have already contacted my previous school. The owner referred them to a manager at the school who I worked with the first year there. I left that school and returned 2 years later. I never worked with the manager my second year there but instead a third person. I don't have contact information of any of these three people but at least the recruiter does and I imagine the school too.

I was actually planning on returning to that school in the future for a third year, but first I wanted to visit other parts of China. Instead of getting a reference letter from them for a new school I was planning on working at one or more new schools and then return for a third year, using a reference letter from one of the new schools.

The school before I returned for a school year is no longer hiring the person I worked with. I contacted them on QQ yesterday and if they did write up a reference letter, wouldn't they need the school's stamp? If so, then they couldn't do the reference letter.

Is there any way to explain this to a Chinese consulate in the USA and be allowed a Z visa without a reference letter? I know I need the work permit and the invitation letter first, but maybe the Chinese consulate can discuss this with the authorities in China and explain my situation.

[hz88]

Sadly this situation does happen.

Personally I think they are over complicating things by asking for these documents in the first place. It simply is not necessary for a new application.

Yes, the letter if needed must be stamped.

If I were you I would stand my ground on this one and keep reminding them that these documents are not actually needed as you are a NEW applicant not a renewal.

As for explaining to the Chinese consulate, they are merely issuing the visa. The invitation letter and supporting documents would have been obtained in China beforehand. Its at this point the explaining needs to be done. As far as the Consulate is concerned they have an instruction to issue you a Z visa and it must have been approved by the powers at be beforehand to have this letter, they would have no interest in this.

Without knowing how far you are with the application, if it has been started or what your exact situation is it is hard to give you an answer to solve this. Your prospective employer will only know what is needed when they start the application online, this is their job not the recruiters. Try speaking to the actual school rather than the recruiter you might have more joy there.

[roadwalker]

[backtochina2017]

Here's an update. I am to go 2 days to complete my physical.

I went today and got my EKG and chest x-ray. They normally charge $70 each but said I could do both for $70 (maybe because I paid without insurance?)

They drew blood and I gave a urine sample.

Then came the hour long discussion about immunization.

On the form, it asks on the first page "Have you ever had any of the following diseases?" Then they list a bunch. The doctor is telling me they can't sign off on it unless they know for certain.

1. Typhoid fever (I am going to take pills for this, not that I have it now though.)
2. Poliomyelitis, Diphtheria, Scarlet fever, Typhoid and paratyphoid fever, Puerperal streptococcus, Epidemic cerebrospinal, Bacillary dysentery, Brucellosis, Virus hepatitis, Relapsing fever, AIDS, Venereal Diseases meningitis and Tuberculosis (doctor never brought these up and I won't worry about them)

The doctor talked to me about hepatitis A and hepatitis B shots. She told me some schedule where I would need to take one shot and wait a month, and then take another shot and wait 6 months. After that I would take a third test after a year or so. Since I plan on going in February, she suggested I take an accelerated dose which would be taken 1 month prior to departure. I may or may not schedule this on my second visit. Does anyone know about this?

In addition, I took a flu shot and an MMR (measles, mumps and rubella) vaccine.

That's it I understand besides the real physical which I am supposed to take on Thursday with the doctor who will sign off on all of this. I am told the cost will be in the $700-$800 range but so far I have "only" paid ~$270.

I am playing all this by ear, and so far it doesn't seem too out of the ordinary. I don't mind footing the bill for these vaccines I have paid for so far.

Do you think teachers should take hepatitis A and B vaccines or not worry about them?

Also, they brought up Japanese encephalitis. I have never heard about this and told them to hold off on this until I got input from other teachers. Has anyone had vaccines, pills, etc... for this?

All of this concern is that I will eventually have to go to a Chinese consulate to get my Z-visa. I am more familiar with that rigor. However, I can see Chinese rejecting my application because I didn't get some test. Is this hogwash thinking? What have teachers done in the US before going to China to get the Z visa? It seems in China if you move from province to province they don't care much, but I am concerned the Chinese consulate will be more strict. Yes, I know, call them.

I will try that tomorrow, but if anyone has any personal experience in this, please let me know. I would hate to travel there, since there is no Chinese consulate in my state, and find out I am missing something.

After my physical is sorted, it will be onto my diploma authentication.

[getbehindthemule]

Wowsers!
My GP (IRE) just asked me if I've ever had such and such, ticked all the boxes. Then has my physical, signed and stamp, in and out in 20mins.
I had the physical again, chest, blood tests, etc. done in Shanghai soon after arrival, which the company paid for.
I didn't have any of these costs, is this a USA thing or dependant on the part of China in which you wish to work (Is SH an exception)?

[snowboard]

[currentaffairs]

700-800 USD might be the minimum for all the medical costs. I have heard of teachers paying more depending on the clinic and the state. Good luck.

[backtochina2017]

I got the physical done (minus the hep vaccines), and I have paid about $470 (USD) so far. Wow, I am considered "obese" now. I think their bill is rather obese too!!

[plumpy nut]

Unfortunately we are talking about Asia, so you have to have written references. This is to get your expert person certificate or whatever it's called. I used a several years old letter of recommendation from a prof that I had scanned and it worked fine, they excepted it. However if your employer wants one from your most recent school, you'll have to track down your school and get one or find another prospective employer. There are quite a few of them looking for teachers.