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| Have you worked at one of these? How was it? |
| I work/worked at Umm al-Qura. Great place! |
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| I work/worked at Umm al-Qura. Don't do it! |
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| I work/worked at Effat. Great place! |
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| I work/worked at Effat. Don't do it! |
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AmericanAmina
Joined: 15 Dec 2015
Posts: 104
Location: Abu Dhabi, UAE
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 Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:34 am Post subject: Umm al-Qura or Effat? |
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Is anyone working at either of these universities? Both of these appeal to me, mostly for the locations. Working at Umm al-Qura would mean living in Makkah, which holds a spiritual appeal. Working at Effat would mean living in Jeddah, which has better school options for my kids (I'm a mom to 6).
I know Umm al-Qura by reputation, and I have heard nice things about it. All I know about Effat is that the website looks more professional than some others, so that gave me hope for the level of professionalism.
My husband still has ties in Taif, where he taught previously, but I would like to explore other options, too. |
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bigdurian
Joined: 05 Feb 2014
Posts: 401
Location: Flashing my lights right behind you!
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: Umm al-Qura or Effat? |
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| AmericanAmina wrote: |
Is anyone working at either of these universities? Both of these appeal to me, mostly for the locations. Working at Umm al-Qura would mean living in Makkah, which holds a spiritual appeal. Working at Effat would mean living in Jeddah, which has better school options for my kids (I'm a mom to 6).
I know Umm al-Qura by reputation, and I have heard nice things about it. All I know about Effat is that the website looks more professional than some others, so that gave me hope for the level of professionalism.
My husband still has ties in Taif, where he taught previously, but I would like to explore other options, too. |
Six kids!! Are they all at school age?
If they are, that's going to set you back an awful lot for anything decent. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't know about Umm al-Qura, but Effat U. requires a related MA or doctorate. |
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FrenchConnexion
Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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I have a friend who works at Ummul Quraa and apparently, she never got her overtime pay, and I think there was also an issue with the school fees. Bear in mind that things are changing pretty fast in government unis, and not for the best. Rumor has it that we might not get the housing allowance from next year onward, and that we might have to take pay cuts if we want to renew our contracts. They are also saudizing the ESL sector in Gov. universities, and as a matter of fact, in my university, we welcomed 8 Saudi female teachers last year. Consequently, they sent away 5 expat teachers to our satellite campuses (to teach in small cities).
We also didn't get the school allowance last year. Without any warning. Just poof, gone.
Effat pays really well from what I heard, and they also treat you very well.
AFAIK, you need an MA is both places. |
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AmericanAmina
Joined: 15 Dec 2015
Posts: 104
Location: Abu Dhabi, UAE
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: Umm al-Qura or Effat? |
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| bigdurian wrote: |
Six kids!! Are they all at school age?
If they are, that's going to set you back an awful lot for anything decent. |
Yes, I know.  But I always wanted a big family, and we're making it work. My husband is an engineer and earns better pay than I do, which helps obviously. My smallest is about to turn 2., and my oldest is starting university next year, so we've got the whole range of schooling to consider. If Saudi employers are tapering off on covering school fees for kids, though, we do take quite a hit from that. We've been homeschooling in the UAE for 3 years, but I'm really hoping to get the kids back into schools next year.
Thanks for the advice on Effat and Umm al-Qura, guys. |
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hash
Joined: 17 Dec 2014
Posts: 456
Location: Wadi Jinn
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm a little confused. Is your husband going to be with you or are you returning to KSA independent of him? I'm asking because usually the wife follows the husband and the children go to school wherever the husband has his job. |
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AmericanAmina
Joined: 15 Dec 2015
Posts: 104
Location: Abu Dhabi, UAE
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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We'd like to find a university where we can both teach (English department for me and engineering department for him), or a city with more than one university where we could find jobs separately. Only one of the kids will be old enough to go to school wherever we find work, because we aren't aiming to teach K-12.
Last edited by AmericanAmina on Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:14 am Post subject: |
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| AmericanAmina wrote: |
| If Saudi employers are tapering off on covering school fees for kids, though, we do take quite a hit from that. We've been homeschooling in the UAE for 3 years, but I'm really hoping to get the kids back into schools next year. |
Very few Saudi universities provide expats with education allowances. Those that do don't cover every child nor the full value of schooling. The exception are likely those expats who hold a PhD.
Frankly, I don't think you'll find your ideal situation in the Gulf -- one in which you and your husband both get uni jobs that include healthy stipends to educate all of your children as they age into the education system. Private school tuition is not cheap.
Instead of hoping for some heavy-duty Saudi wasta to get you into a direct-hire uni position (with an online MA TESOL), why not look into Egypt for teaching opportunities? You may have to teach children and adults, but assuming your husband has a doctorate... |
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AmericanAmina
Joined: 15 Dec 2015
Posts: 104
Location: Abu Dhabi, UAE
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:26 am Post subject: |
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Three years ago when we were in Saudi, my husband's university job did cover school fees for three of our kids, which is why I had the expectation that it still would. Things change, though, so that may not be the case now. He left his school on good terms and with assurance that he was welcome to return, and I had hoped the same type of package would still be available. His school had offered to hire me for their foundation program with my BA at that time, but I had a newborn and didn't want to work then. We have zero wasta  just the benefit of previous networking.
And there's no need for the jabs at my poor little online MA. It wasn't completely done online, just some of the coursework. That was the best option I had for getting finished with it while we're living abroad, so that's what I went with. I still have to go back in the spring to do final exams, etc. in person.
I have a Canadian friend living in Egypt, married to a local, and working at a school there. She's trying to get out. It's politically unstable right now. She doesn't have running water a lot of the time (in a nice apartment in a bigger city). And they just put limits on some basic food items, like sugar, which she hasn't been able to get for a couple of weeks. Think twice before heading to Egypt these days. Five years ago it was a decent gig. Now, maybe not. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:51 am Post subject: |
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Education allowance is a limiting factor for many. Some unis pay nothing. Some pay a flat rate of SAR25,000. Not per child but in total. Not enough to cover educational costs in a reasonable school.
As a result it is now quite unusual to see families with school-age children among the English teachers at the likes of KFUPM. |
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AmericanAmina
Joined: 15 Dec 2015
Posts: 104
Location: Abu Dhabi, UAE
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:04 am Post subject: |
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| scot47 wrote: |
Education allowance is a limiting factor for many. Some unis pay nothing. Some pay a flat rate of SAR25,000. Not per child but in total. Not enough to cover educational costs in a reasonable school.
As a result it is now quite unusual to see families with school-age children among the English teachers at the likes of KFUPM. |
We were in Taif, and there were a lot of expat families there with kids. Most of us were pretty flexible about schooling, though, and willing to try different things. I had two of my kids at the Pakistani school, which taught *mostly* in English. I had two of my kids at a local private Arabic school, hoping they would pick up some of the language. Both of these schools were costing us around 7,000SAR per kid per year. And my high school age kid was studying online through Keystone to finish her high school diploma through the American system. I know families who were homeschooling and others who put their kids into Saudi public school and supplemented with teaching them some things at home.
To put your kids in a the nicer international schools where they will get a fully American or British style educational experience, it costs a significant amount. People need to be aware of that upfront, I totally agree. If you're willing to experiment, you can get a better deal. My only warning is to be careful of safety issues at the boys' schools. We had an issue with this in one case that was pretty alarming. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| AmericanAmina wrote: |
Three years ago when we were in Saudi, my husband's university job did cover school fees for three of our kids, which is why I had the expectation that it still would. Things change, though, so that may not be the case now. He left his school on good terms and with assurance that he was welcome to return, and I had hoped the same type of package would still be available. His school had offered to hire me for their foundation program with my BA at that time, but I had a newborn and didn't want to work then. We have zero wasta just the benefit of previous networking.
And there's no need for the jabs at my poor little online MA. It wasn't completely done online, just some of the coursework. That was the best option I had for getting finished with it while we're living abroad, so that's what I went with. I still have to go back in the spring to do final exams, etc. in person. |
What jabs? In no way am I knocking the validity or quality of your degree. You'd mentioned on the other thread that you had connections in KSA and were hoping for some flexibility in terms of getting work using your MA. Since you're scoping out potential Saudi employers (including those that expect a related master's degree), be aware that your MA won't qualify you for an employment visa; the SACM will require your US university registrar to complete a distance learning form for degree authentication. (This distance/online verification component was implemented about three years ago.) Your BA in English will get you work in KSA, but it may not be as a direct hire nor at the universities you're targeting. Plus, as a trailing spouse and local hire, your salary will likely be lukewarm and minus any benefits. Something to think about as you look for opportunities with the type of benefits you need. |
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FrenchConnexion
Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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Nomad Soul,
I had no idea about that: "the SACM will require your US university registrar to complete a distance learning form for degree authentication"!!
When I came to KSA in 2009, the cultural attaché just verified my degree with my university. Seems like the hiring process is much tougher.
However, AmericanAmina could very well secure a well-paid position in one of the Colleges of Excellence. As a local hire. |
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AmericanAmina
Joined: 15 Dec 2015
Posts: 104
Location: Abu Dhabi, UAE
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| What jabs? In no way am I knocking the validity or quality of your degree. You'd mentioned on the other thread that you had connections in KSA and were hoping for some flexibility in terms of getting work using your MA. Since you're scoping out potential Saudi employers (including those that expect a related master's degree), be aware that your MA won't qualify you for an employment visa; the SACM will require your US university registrar to complete a distance learning form for degree authentication. (This distance/online verification component was implemented about three years ago.) Your BA in English will get you work in KSA, but it may not be as a direct hire nor at the universities you're targeting. |
Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but I don't think this is the case. I'm getting my MA from a brick-and-mortar, fully accredited university. The classes I'm taking online are also offered on campus, taught by the same teachers, using the same curriculum. Nowhere on my transcript does it say which classes were taken on campus and which were taken online. I'm halfway inclined to believe that my MA will be accepted at face value.
| nomad soul wrote: |
| Plus, as a trailing spouse and local hire, your salary will likely be lukewarm and minus any benefits. Something to think about as you look for opportunities with the type of benefits you need. |
We aren't planning to do it like this. I'm not waiting for my husband to find a job and then accompanying him over and then looking for my own job. We are each looking for jobs simultaneously. We'll have his job sponsor him, the kids, and the housing, since as a PhD he'll get a better package than me. Then I'll have my job sponsor me. I realize I won't get any housing stipend, but my pay shouldn't be lower, right? |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| AmericanAmina wrote: |
| Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but I don't think this is the case. I'm getting my MA from a brick-and-mortar, fully accredited university. The classes I'm taking online are also offered on campus, taught by the same teachers, using the same curriculum. Nowhere on my transcript does it say which classes were taken on campus and which were taken online. I'm halfway inclined to believe that my MA will be accepted at face value. |
This is a requirement even for legit, accredited brick-n-mortar universities; the focus is on the medium of instruction since the government does not view online/distance learning as equal to in-class/traditional learning. This issue has been discussed numerous times throughout this forum over the past few years. It's a sore spot with some job seekers from the UK, US, etc.
The SACM doesn't rely solely on what's printed on the diploma or transcript when authenticating degrees; they require verification from the registrar. Head to the SACM's website, and click on "Forms" on the left menu for the authentication application, distance form, and consent form. Frankly, if you're in the UAE while completing a degree at a university located in the US, it will be obvious to prospective employers that you have online course credits.
| AmericanAmina wrote: |
| nomad soul wrote: |
| As a trailing spouse and local hire, your salary will likely be lukewarm and minus any benefits. Something to think about as you look for opportunities with the type of benefits you need. |
We aren't planning to do it like this. I'm not waiting for my husband to find a job and then accompanying him over and then looking for my own job. We are each looking for jobs simultaneously. We'll have his job sponsor him, the kids, and the housing, since as a PhD he'll get a better package than me. Then I'll have my job sponsor me. I realize I won't get any housing stipend, but my pay shouldn't be lower, right? |
I can't say what your salary would be based on your BA and experience -- whether potential employers will try to lowball you because they'd expect you to join your husband and children. You'd have to apply to find out. However, as a female, depending on the employer, you're more likely to be provided (single-status) housing than given an allowance. |
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