Job Discussion Forums

brnrd · Joined: 23 Dec 2013 Posts: 53

Hello,
I taught in China for over 20 years,but due to my father's ill health, I've had to stay back in Canada 3 years.
I hadn't had a Z visa for about 18 years...for a long time an F visa was acceptable(Well, the British Council told us it was), right up until the Olympics then the prices went haywire.During that time my now ex-wife got me a special Z visa.My point is it's been a long time since I applied for a regular Z visa.

One job that strung me along(8 weeks!) wanted me to come in on a tourist visa,and then go down to Hong Kong.If my memory serves me, that was and STILL is illegal,no?
I just had a part-one interview,and the gal told me that I come in ASAP on a tourist visa....That's 2 out of 2 ! WTF! Went through the above Sticky,and saw nothing pertaining to this.

In ESL globally obtaining the required working papers is getting more and more burdensome...Now criminal check...Now uni degrees attested So popping over on a tourist visa seems easier, but also non-committal on their end, big time $$$ commitment on our end.
Cheers,
WW

backtochina2017 · Joined: 28 Nov 2016 Posts: 123

I wouldn't say it's the norm, and I would never suggest a first time teacher do this. However, if you have the money and you go on a tourist visa to visit the school and don't like what you see, you can visit other schools. Just remember, you will have to pay everything up until you get a school. Even then, they may not pay for your Hong Kong trip.

Whether the Hong Kong trip will work is another question. I have faith it can work out depending on the area you go, but I have no firsthand knowledge. I am playing it safe, putting my money into getting the visa here in the states.

One interesting note though is you get a Z visa, but that only gives you 1 month. During that time you and your school will apply for an FEC and residence permit which actually gives you the year. So, in a way, when you get your Z visa, you don't really have a 1 year visa yet. It's kind of a probationary 1 month thing.

brnrd · Joined: 23 Dec 2013 Posts: 53

Thanks Backtochina,
You didn't say explicitly("not the norm"...This is still NOT the regular channel,yes?
When I was more attune to the visa stuff etc..on these boards, it was a warning bell then to stay away or expect to be working illegally,and looking over your shoulder. Not like that now,I guess then?

Doesn't this burden the employee with undue risk? They wouldn't handle it in Beijing,and I would have to go to Hong Kong? When it comes to ESL,one can never be too weary of possible outcomes going sideways.

Cheers,
William Wallace

backtochina2017 · Joined: 28 Nov 2016 Posts: 123

I have no stats on who goes to China on a tourist visa and tries to get a school sorted to later get a Z visa. I don't think anyone knows this.

Also, realize, some teachers work their year with their old school and just extend their stay by getting an L visa while still in China. This is less of a risk because they have to fly anyway somewhere, and they get a 1 month vacation to be a tourist and decide what to do next.

The obvious elephant in the room is that it is assumed you would be working illegally. I think this is why there is so much stigma against visiting schools on a tourist visa. After that, it is a money issue, do you have enough to survive on and then 1 more month when you get your Z visa before you get your first month's pay?

One lady wanted me to work at her school, pay my own rent, teach an age range I never requested through the recruiter and then "maybe" after 4 months she might get me an apartment. They will do whatever people are willing to do. If you see a sweater for sale, it might be 900rmb, but that doesn't mean you have to pay 900rmb. You need to negotiate.

With new rules in place, I imagine more of this is happening. This brings up one good reason not to go on a tourist visa. If employers get used to doing this, they will less likely follow through on getting your Z visa. They will just work you as many months as you can renew or stay (if you get that 10 year tourist visa we have been hearing about).

Non-native English speakers will try this too. Yea, the more I think about it, the less I like it. It would make more sense to get the Z visa the prescribed way, establish good relations with your employer, and work out a deal where you can travel and visit your next school and in return you get less pay one month or do extra work. This way you can do whatever you would have done on the tourist visa on the Z visa.

Non Sequitur · Joined: 23 May 2010 Posts: 4724 Location: China

brnrd · Joined: 23 Dec 2013 Posts: 53

Dear non sequitur,

Well,if you were referring to Saudi Arabia,yes,but that was 14 months ago.Then I was to return to my old job in China,and they were proceeding the standard way of which I'm accustomed,but my father needed a possible pacemaker the very day I was to email the signed contract,so...that was the end of that! That's more or less all my enquirers have been on these forums,until now.
Cheers,
WW

P.S. No, I forget a few questions over working visa for Turkey(Sept-Oct)

Frankly, I'm still a bit confused over what exactly is going on in China now.Case in point, the thread about the medical testing in the US -Which obviously if you're coming in on a tourist visa, makes that issue moot.

OhBudPowellWhereArtThou · Joined: 02 Jun 2015 Posts: 1168 Location: Since 2003

THIS QUESTION COMES UP EVERY OTHER DAY IN THIS FORUM! READ THE STICKY!

Guerciotti · Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:50 pm Post subject:

Do not come on a tourist visa to teach in China. Do not. Is that clear?

No, coming for work on a tourist visa is not the norm. It is illegal. Not legal. It it a bad idea for you, the teacher. The Hong Kong visa runs are largely a thing of the past. Do you really want to go to Hong Kong every three months? Really?

If you have a bachelor's degree, the risk of coming on a tourist visa is unnecessary, just pointless. Get a real job that provides you with a Z visa before you leave your home country.

You may be required to fly home to secure a Z visa anyway.

The only benefit? Forum readers will be entertained by your subsequent complains about how the school reduced your pay, constantly tells you you suck yet will not fire you, gives you extra classes without extra pay, and fines you for minor infractions and made-up shit because they know the authorities will not punish them, but will punish you if they catch you.

The "come on a tourist visa!" 'schools' probably cannot legally hire you as a foreign teacher.

It may be palatable for a risk-taker without a bachelor's degree. It may be plausible for those who don't mind working illegally, who are comfortable being abused by their employer because they are teaching illegally.

If you worked here for twenty years, you should know something about this place.

If you continue to find employers who ask you to come on a tourist visa, you must change your application strategy. Ignore schools that send you unsolicited "Come now! We love you!" offers. Actually apply for real jobs.

twowheel · Joined: 03 Jul 2015 Posts: 753

^^^ Guerciotti's post is solid. It behooves one to take those words seriously.

twowheel

Chris300 · Joined: 09 Sep 2015 Posts: 7

Guerciotti, I think the main question guy was asking what if he came on a tourist visa, find a job and then legalize it.
He may need to go to HK once, for Z-visa or not in case he would be able to proceed for resident permit directly as some of the posts in this forum suggest