Job Discussion Forums

[Wicked Stepmother]

Let my current sorry tale be a warning for teachers regarding the new online work permit system.

Back in September I applied to teach in China and a work permit was issued. I changed my mind about the vacancy for various reasons and did not apply for a visa.

I applied for and accepted a new job in China a week ago. However, they try to apply for a work permit using the new online system...and told me they could not, because a permit had been issued by another province. This means I cannot get a new post in China. The previous university is refusing to cancel the old permit.

Thus the warning now is clear. Do not sign any contract unless you are willing to do the job. Or you will end up like me: jobless and unable to do anything about it. The new system allows for your actions to be tracked. Even if you commit no criminal offense you are stuck. The university can take revenge on you for not fulfilling the contract even if you do not actually start the job.

And yes, I wish I had taken the job now...but they will not even talk to me.

[backtochina2017]

I think more information needs to be provided. If the school name can be posted here, then you should post it so others don't go there. If the school name can't be posted here, you should find a blacklist site to report them so others don't go there.

The next thing is which provinces in question are we talking about? Is the recruiter on your side trying to get you a visa?

They have to apply for an invitation letter also. If they don't have an invitation letter, then I don't see how they would know when you actually start work. The PSB would need to know this in order to get you a residence permit. You haven't even gone to a consulate to get a Z visa. Did you take any medical exams for a new province?

Big worry, little info. Right now, it's just a scare tactic. I am not convinced yet you can't get another recruiter in another province. If you are in Beijing, don't try to get a job close by like in Hebei. If you are in Shanghai, don't try to get a job close by in Suzhou for example. Look for a job in Sichuan or Guangdong south. Something like that.

If what you said was true, then anyone could apply online once they know your passport number. That's the only thing tying you to the job. So, I think you need to dig deeper and find another recruiter with a completely different offer. I have been interviewing with schools this past couple months and right now I have settled on one school but other recruiters are still trying to get me to sign their contract instead. LOL

[Wicked Stepmother]

A lot of good points in your message. To clarify, here are some answers to queries.

[nomad soul]

[backtochina2017]

Ok, let's back track here. How did you get to China in the first place? At some point you had to be outside of China and enter on a Z-visa. Regardless where you worked, when did this happen?

From here your replies are out of order, so I need to re-order them to make sense of the situation. I will assume you didn't have a previous Z-visa before going to Hubei.

"No, because it is exactly the same form as with all provinces, and I had the medical exam only months before for the Hubei post. I wasn't going to pay for another one."

Well, if you go to a new province, the rule is usually you get a new physical. Regardless, you say "only months before". Was this physical from a previous school or did you get the physical outside of China and then hope to use that for the Hubei position? The reason I ask is that usually if it is outside of China, they may still want a new physical when you get there. If you had a previous job, then what they did was extend your residence permit giving you the year instead of leaving the country. Is this what happened in Hubei? Did you get a new residence permit added?

Again, a lot of unanswered questions.

"The Hubei employer got me an invitation letter. The Jiangsu employer obviously could not do it, because of the previous application."

That makes me think you got the physical outside of China if Hubei got your invitation letter. You don't need another one if you go from one residence permit to another without canceling your Z-visa.

"No, because it is exactly the same form as with all provinces, and I had the medical exam only months before for the Hubei post. I wasn't going to pay for another one."

Well, after ~2011 I had to get a new physical every time I worked in a new province, even though the form was the same. When I went from school to school in the same province, other teachers coming from another province had to get a new physical. Those were the rules and I can understand China being strict about this. Make sure you understand this. A new physical should be needed to get a new residence permit when going to a new province.

"The recruiter was in Beijing, the employer Jiangsu and the original post Hubei."

The recruiter? Why only one? Get a second recruiter and see what they say. A work permit without a residence permit is not going to be valid, there would have to be some expiration time if it was actually processed.

Bottom line, if you have a residence permit extended, then the employer could make things difficult for you in that province but there are still chances to get another job in another province through another recruiter. I know one guy who dated a girl and she was close to the police. When they broke up she got him "banished" from the province.

However, he is still in China, worked in Beijing and is now in a similar area as you. So, it's possible. Go to echinacities.com and use this site to reply to offers. Try different provinces. I would not give up so quickly and leave China if you are already in it. I am going through hell now trying to get a new Z-visa. I highly suggest you not do this. It's not as easy as it was.

If you don't have an extended residence permit and it is about to end, then there is nothing the Hubei school can do.

[hz88]

As we all know things evolve constantly in China but a lot of what you are saying has been mentioned time and time again. I have lost count of the times I have had to say that the new system is linked. The warnings have been there for all to see.

I understand what the OP is saying and whilst I don't think its the whole story, the basic facts certainly tally with what happens nowadays.

In a nutshell (I have said on several occasions before in other posts) once an invitation letter is issued by ANY establishment you will not be able to apply for another until that one is canceled or expires naturally. This usually happens after 180 days.

It is the responsibility of the issuing establishment to cancel it, this requires them personally visiting the issuing office (time, money and other factors involved) and getting the cancellation notice. Most schools will void them as they have limited quotas of foreign teachers.

You mention that the previous school refuse to cancel the invitation letter, well this sometimes happens but it does have a time limit. My suggestion is that you in the first instance contact them in a non confrontational, apologetic way, if this does not work ask your new school to approach them in the usual Chinese way (this will probably involve some greasing of palms, which if they really want you they will play ball with).

The health check as someone else mentioned has no relevance at this stage, the problem is simply that an active invitation letter is showing in the system and a new one cannot be issued until this is canceled or expires itself.

People seem to always get confused with invitation letters, visas, work and resident permits (which are in fact different). They are all an individual part of a complex process. The first hurdle for any employer to pass is getting the approval for the invitation letter, this is where the new system kicked in last September and started checking the national database. The idea being to prevent multiple applications from one applicant.

Whilst that has good points, the sad point is as the OP has found out it can be misused in a vindictive way.

[ghost]

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Note: You will not be charged a fee for this.

Ghost in China

[jimpellow]

HZ88 has his sh*t together - again. The whole affair exemplifies how they have revamped the system, but in reality have done nothing to make employers and recruiters accountable for their actions. I would assume in this case that they have not filled the position so they can afford to be vindictive.

If you really want to do China, wait the time and get your ducks in a row as much as you can. Kick back somewhere cheap with reliable Internet and teach online and use the savings to fund the costly China z-visa process.

[backtochina2017]

"You mention that the previous school refuse to cancel the invitation letter"

Well, no, he mentioned work permit.
"I applied for and accepted a new job in China a week ago. However, they try to apply for a work permit using the new online system...and told me they could not, because a permit had been issued by another province."

The invitation letter comes after doesn't it? You get the work permit and then invitation letter. I was told 2 weeks each.

If only the work permit was issued then you should be able to get a new school. I have had this happen before with me. I went to one city, left after 3 weeks and got a Z visa with another school. I worked with the same recruiter in a second arrangement and it was a university job. I got there early in the summer and we applied online together. Things went sour in just one week there, I left and got an immediate second job at another school in another province.

I think the issue is the residence permit, and the reason I am asking about the physical is you have to submit this in order to get a new residence permit. If they didn't do the physical, they didn't get a new residence permit.

[Non Sequitur]

To be honest, the fault was mine really. I was the one who changed my mind and inconvenienced them. Not sure if that is a reason to blacklist them. They have done nothing illegal.

Argue that back from the school's viewpoint.
How much time did you give them to fill the slot you abandoned?
Not overly sympathetic to be frank with you.

[backtochina2017]

[Babala]

It's not the resident permit that is causing the issue. It's the FEC. This is not new however, I have been warning teachers for years about this issue. Once the province has issued the FEC, you are now locked into that school.

Perhaps you could offer to pay the previous school the money they spent on the process to get everything canceled.

[hz88]

That hits the nail on the head!

The problem is that the OP's original school had an Invitation letter issued, that has now locked he/she from applying elsewhere.

This is the first step in the process. The invitation letter is to apply for the work permit. There is always much confusion over this.

This letter is then used to apply for the Z visa, then when the applicant arrives in China, the next step is the Foreign Experts Book then the resident permit.

As I suggested and I know from first hand experience of dealing with an exact same situation this September with a new teacher, the only way was to offer a 'gift' to the school that had originally issued the certificate.

Until that is canceled or expires itself you will not get another one, period. Even if you change your passport number now, it matches names and dates of birth and will still ask for a manual review.

[backtochina2017]

"It's not the resident permit that is causing the issue. It's the FEC."
"The problem is that the OP's original school had an Invitation letter issued, that has now locked he/she from applying elsewhere."

FEC or invitation letter?

I see 2 different things being said.

1. After the teacher provides diploma authentication, physical, either criminal background check or declaration statement (I have only done the latter so far, maybe someone can add if I have to or not get a local police check also in the US), copies of the passport front cover with the photo, 2 inch passport photo copies and resume the school can then start the application process.
2. The school applies for the work permit, about 2 weeks.
3. The school applies for the invitation letter, about 2 weeks.
4. The teacher either leaves the country or is already out of the country and visits a Chinese consulate to apply for the Z visa. If anyone can verify, do we need to bring the actual physical to the consulate and degree or is that only needed for steps 2 and 3?
5. After about 4 days, the Z visa is issued and I think you have 30 days to enter China.
6. When you enter, you report your location to the local police and get an address where you are living. This was an issue that came up with my last school and I had to wait at the PSB the whole day because my school gave a different address to the police and I had to wait for it to get updated.
7. You then have to apply for the residence permit and also the FEC (which used to be a booklet that looked like a small passport, but I understand it's being replaced with a card now).

When you go to a new school the old school returns the FEC to the PSB. I had problems getting this with my 2nd from last school and was able to do it in person myself. At the PSB, they handed me a FEC release form which showed a number, I think it had my passport number. If not, there was a number associated.

After that, you can get a new release letter.

The original poster hasn't stated if they were out of the country or not when they got a work permit. They mentioned invitation letter, but again, this isn't really needed to go from one school to the next. If a FEC was issued, this means the teacher was about to get the residence permit or had it. If there is no residence permit, they have limited number of days before they have to leave the country. If they have a residence permit in their passport, then they can stay in China but the school is supposed to report to the PSB the teacher is not working. This would cancel the resident permit. But as long as they are saying nothing, you could leave China and re-enter until that residence permit expired.

The worst case scenario from this I see is that the teacher doesn't have a residence permit yet, has to leave China and cannot re-enter until they get paperwork for a new Z-visa. At that point, you might be able to get a new work permit, new invitation letter, and new Z visa (steps 1-4 above).

The FEC doesn't come up until after you have entered China and are ready to get the residence permit.

[hz88]

What you are saying is or rather was technically correct however over the last twelve months the system has changed.

We could go on and on discussing this but the salient point is that once any school completes an online application which is then approved and it has reached someones desk at the provincial office and they have issued the invitation letter, no other school (no matter whether the same or a different province) can get another one without it being canceled.

The work permit and invitation letter are now combined in the same process and applied for at the same time.

The FEC (small booklet as you said) is returned not to the PSB but to the issuing office for cancellation, they then issue you a cancellation letter which you pass on to your new employer. It has a unique tracking number and is barcoded.

I don't know the background to the OP, it was not overly clear whether he/she was already in China but it sounded as though he/she was not.

Unless he/she can shed some more light on the exact circumstances we are all being speculative but from reading between the lines, the only way out of it is for the unused invitation letter to be canceled by whoever issued it or let it expire itself.