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Wolfsong
Joined: 16 Jul 2016
Posts: 76
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 Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:11 am Post subject: Non-native teachers of ESL? |
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Has anyone noticed that it seems to be becoming more common for agency ads not to stipulate native teachers of English for the Middle East? I've seen several agency ads asking for teachers of any nationality to teach ESL as long as an IELTS score of 7.5 is attained. It applies for schools, private businesses and universities!
Is this a general drift of ESL? |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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Of course. As the pay, benefits, and conditions tank, so do the number of native speakers who will be interested.
VS |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:45 pm Post subject: Re: Non-native teachers of ESL? |
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| Wolfsong wrote: |
Has anyone noticed that it seems to be becoming more common for agency ads not to stipulate native teachers of English for the Middle East? I've seen several agency ads asking for teachers of any nationality to teach ESL as long as an IELTS score of 7.5 is attained. It applies for schools, private businesses and universities!
Is this a general drift of ESL? |
This isn't a new trend; non-native speakers -- expats and nationals -- have been teaching in the region for some time. Plus, there's a push for qualified nationals to replace foreign workers. |
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Wolfsong
Joined: 16 Jul 2016
Posts: 76
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| veiledsentiments wrote: |
Of course. As the pay, benefits, and conditions tank, so do the number of native speakers who will be interested.
VS |
Of course that would be the case but I should have been clearer. What I meant was that there seems to be a trend to look for non-native teachers in order to force the pay down. Some employers, private schools, unis want to employ non-natives in order to pay less. |
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Wolfsong
Joined: 16 Jul 2016
Posts: 76
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: Non-native teachers of ESL? |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| Wolfsong wrote: |
Has anyone noticed that it seems to be becoming more common for agency ads not to stipulate native teachers of English for the Middle East? I've seen several agency ads asking for teachers of any nationality to teach ESL as long as an IELTS score of 7.5 is attained. It applies for schools, private businesses and universities!
Is this a general drift of ESL? |
This isn't a new trend; non-native speakers -- expats and nationals -- have been teaching in the region for some time. |
How long for approx? I ask because I have never come across non-native teachers being stipulated ever.
| nomad soul wrote: |
| Plus, there's a push for qualified nationals to replace foreign workers. |
In general areas of work yes, but I have never come across this in teaching until recently. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 2:57 am Post subject: Re: Non-native teachers of ESL? |
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| Wolfsong wrote: |
How long for approx? I ask because I have never come across non-native teachers being stipulated ever. |
That is because they just don't specify at all.
I have seen ads where they specify level of English required... which naturally references non-native speakers.
VS |
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E-Prime
Joined: 03 Nov 2014
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:26 am Post subject: Non-native Speakers |
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| If a non-native speaker teacher scores 7.5 on the IELTS band then his language proficiency is equivalent to that of a native speaker. Instead of having hangups about who is a native, and who isn't, the emphasis should instead be on proficiency. Some native speakers wouldn't even score a 7.5 on the IELTS band! |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Most native speakers would have problems scoring at that level. Both Australia an NZ award higher points to would-be--migrants on the basis of IELS scores. many native speakers now do that exam for this purpose. I have tested them. Some get very low scores, even those with supposedly professional qualifications. |
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Lord T
Joined: 07 Jul 2015
Posts: 285
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Wolfsong wrote: |
| veiledsentiments wrote: |
Of course. As the pay, benefits, and conditions tank, so do the number of native speakers who will be interested.
VS |
Of course that would be the case but I should have been clearer. What I meant was that there seems to be a trend to look for non-native teachers in order to force the pay down. Some employers, private schools, unis want to employ non-natives in order to pay less. |
I think you are both right in what you say. I notice that countries such as Oman and Kuwait are clearly unable/unwilling to pay salaries that teachers from most Anglophone countries would consider attractive. Saudi is going the same way. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Lord T wrote: |
| I notice that countries such as Oman and Kuwait are clearly unable/unwilling to pay salaries that teachers from most Anglophone countries would consider attractive. Saudi is going the same way. |
Not all countries in the Gulf are equal. For example, Oman has never been as wealthy as the others in the GCC, and tiny Kuwait only has a small number of university English prep year programs.
Regardless, job seekers to the region -- native and nonnative speakers -- need to be realistic about how much they're worth, especially if they hold a degree unrelated to TESOL and minimal teaching experience. It is what it is. |
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plumpy nut
Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:27 am Post subject: Re: Non-native Speakers |
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| E-Prime wrote: |
| Some native speakers wouldn't even score a 7.5 on the IELTS band! |
A native speaker is going to know things about his language, and be able to do things with his language that can't be tested on IELTS, but for teaching the Gulf Arabs those things are inconsequential. Things like idioms, colloquialisms, and English cadence serve only to get an English teacher fired if he tries to make the higher level Gulf Arabs aware of them. Even phrasal verbs can be a hazard to teach in the region. The world was not ordered in such a way for them to have to deal with such topics. The Gulf Arabs would be better off cashing in on the financial savings that non-native teachers provide. |
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