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Hatcher
Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 602
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 Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:59 am Post subject: One stop cities |
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It seems to me that there are several cities with a high turnover. The teachers go for a year and then quickly move. I see lots of ads Zhengzhou. Never heard a decent thing about the place.
Daqing is another but I am not sure anyone goes to begin with. Zipo is another. Seems like one year in these places and they move on. |
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huoguojiggae2017
Joined: 13 Jul 2017
Posts: 57
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I see lots of ads Zhengzhou. Never heard a decent thing about the place. |
It's kind of like Ohio in the USA. It gets overshadowed by NY in the east, the Detroit Chicago connection in the north and say Kansas to Colorado going west. If you don't like the north, then you are faced with a different problem. In the south, you have Shanghai which is like Florida, a visitor's international resort.
I don't know what you mean by "one stop city" for Zhengzhou. It is actually a multiple stop city until you find the right city for you. I am including other parts of Henan in this also.
Just as Ohio has Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton, Toledo, and Cincinatti Henan has various cities, which are intermingled in the surrounding areas of Zhengzhou.
How do you know which one is right for you? It is very difficult. I think people might be leaving Henan too soon because the first offer didn't seem to compare as well as Beijing or Shanghai.
This is partly true, and it is also greatly influenced by the fact developing cities do not have locals who are able to interact with foreigners. There is a comfort zone we are in when we get jobs in Beijing and Shanghai. If we go to tourist areas like Sichuan or Qingdao, then they are used to seeing foreigners as short term visitors and when they find out we are working and living for a longer period they are more open in conversation.
I returned to China, with a high paying salary in Zhengzhou, but the people could not communicate with me. On campus housing had to be dealt with, they did not explain deductions for the first month's pay, there was no mention of them returning our passports, etc...
I had to leave that job and didn't have much time to find a new place in Henan. I went to Wuhan, where I experienced a very different atmosphere. The school and recruiters were for the most part very helpful, and they communicated with me. The problem I have with the south is the coolie type working environment.
Both experiences in Shanghai and Wuhan have shown they are wonderful backpacker excursions and places I want to travel around, but they are not a match for me to settle in and live for a longer period of time. The buses are way overcrowded. When they get out, you see a long line of construction workers getting out with their drills and water bottles.
When I returned to Henan with a third school, I realized it was very different. The buses here are half the size and only have about 3-4 people on them. This includes the driver!!!
I got lucky to find a coordinator who has studied and worked abroad. At first the office workers were unwilling to participate. One of them doesn't even want an English name. After 2 weeks, they opened up and we are now talking.
I feel this is the problem with these cities that on the surface appear to be not good but simply don't have the history of dealing with foreigners.
When I was looking for a third school, I got a lot of offers in the south which read something like, "Full time job, 20,000RMB/month, no visa support".
Or, they were very low paying jobs. I don't know the reason for this. My theory so far is that teachers who cannot find jobs in Shanghai head west, further eploiting the coolie mentality. Maybe third time's a charm, maybe I should consider Guangdong or Shenzhen someday. Right now I am happy to be back near Zhengzhou in the north where I can go by train to Beijing, Qingdao, or even Harbin. |
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Foo_Fighters_Dave
Joined: 09 Dec 2016
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| That is nice to hear. I have heard that Zhengzhou has decent bars and women. I also heard that Wuhan is the birthplace of rock music in China. Do they have decent expat scenes there? |
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The bear
Joined: 16 Aug 2015
Posts: 483
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Foo_Fighters_Dave wrote: |
| That is nice to hear. I have heard that Zhengzhou has decent bars and women. I also heard that Wuhan is the birthplace of rock music in China. Do they have decent expat scenes there? |
Wuhan's a great city in my opinion and the expat scene is brilliant. The downside with Wuhan is that it's vast. You're forever travelling to things. |
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LarssonCrew
Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 1308
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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Your description of an expat sounds exactly like Chinese.
Love all the things about their new country [Aus,UK,USA etc.] such as good healthcare and education, clean air etc. and yet support China and will even go and campaign / protest against foreigners if asked to by the government. |
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GHL
Joined: 16 Jul 2017
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Don't know how anyone could love anything about the UK tbh. |
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LarssonCrew
Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 1308
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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Comparing UK to China:
Better wages
Ability to elect a leader
Good education [best 2 universities in the world, best private high school in the world]
Good at sports [beat China, a country with 26 times the population, in the Olympics and at major sports like football, rugby etc.]
Free amazing healthcare
Clean air
Buildings which are hundreds if not thousands of years old
World class sites and cities with amazing museums and parks
Amazing history
Influence on the entire world [language and culture] |
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GHL
Joined: 16 Jul 2017
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| LarssonCrew wrote: |
Comparing UK to China:
Better wages
Ability to elect a leader
Good education [best 2 universities in the world, best private high school in the world]
Good at sports [beat China, a country with 26 times the population, in the Olympics and at major sports like football, rugby etc.]
Free amazing healthcare
Clean air
Buildings which are hundreds if not thousands of years old
World class sites and cities with amazing museums and parks
Amazing history
Influence on the entire world [language and culture] |
Post-tax wages are garbage in the UK. Post-tax and post-rent wages are downright appalling.
Don't care about politics.
Yeah they have some decent universities.
Can watch the premier league anywhere in the world. It's hardly an advantage to living in the UK.
Healthcare is crap nowadays, huge waiting lists.
Yeah, air is clean.
Who cares about buildings?
If I want history I can read a book, don't need to live in the UK.
Who cares? Not an advantage to living in the UK.
Now here's some downsides:
- The cost of rent is absolutely obscene.
- After subtracting taxes, student loans, and rent, you'll be better off in China unless you're earning 50k+ back in the UK.
- Nightlife costs a fortune.
- Much easier to get dates in China.
- 3 months+ paid vacation in China. 5 weeks in the UK, because 99% of the people who work in China wouldn't be qualified to work in a school back in the UK.
- If they were qualified, they wouldn't want to work in a UK school anyway as it's pretty much the worst job in the whole country.
- Work life balance in general sucks. UK employers demand an awful lot more than Chinese employers. |
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rioux
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 880
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:48 am Post subject: |
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| huoguojiggae2017 wrote: |
| "one stop city" |
Gong-Yi, Henan |
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thechangling
Joined: 11 Apr 2013
Posts: 276
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| The bear wrote: |
| Foo_Fighters_Dave wrote: |
| That is nice to hear. I have heard that Zhengzhou has decent bars and women. I also heard that Wuhan is the birthplace of rock music in China. Do they have decent expat scenes there? |
Wuhan's a great city in my opinion and the expat scene is brilliant. The downside with Wuhan is that it's vast. You're forever travelling to things. |
I live in Wuhan and don't like this city although what bear says is true about there being a good expat scene in the bars I assume he means and from which I have witnessed.
Wuhan is too big to get around quickly or easily in and is infested with noise, construction, dust and air pollution which for me is why it gets a 'D'. I much prefer Changsha.
It's also infested with some english language Training Centres which will not pay more that 120 RMB per hour for part time english language teachers and flog the skin off the chinese english teachers. |
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The bear
Joined: 16 Aug 2015
Posts: 483
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| thechangling wrote: |
| The bear wrote: |
| Foo_Fighters_Dave wrote: |
| That is nice to hear. I have heard that Zhengzhou has decent bars and women. I also heard that Wuhan is the birthplace of rock music in China. Do they have decent expat scenes there? |
Wuhan's a great city in my opinion and the expat scene is brilliant. The downside with Wuhan is that it's vast. You're forever travelling to things. |
I live in Wuhan and don't like this city although what bear says is true about there being a good expat scene in the bars I assume he means and from which I have witnessed.
Wuhan is too big to get around quickly or easily in and is infested with noise, construction, dust and air pollution which for me is why it gets a 'D'. I much prefer Changsha.
It's also infested with some english language Training Centres which will not pay more that 120 RMB per hour for part time english language teachers and flog the skin off the chinese english teachers. |
Yeah, some real good bars and people in Wuhan, but it's not just bars and drinking. Just the expats I met there were great in general. There's something for everyone in Wuhan. Good music scene as well.
Can't say I agree about the wages though. I walked into a job paying 250 an hour without any difficulty, only accepted that as it was right next to my apartment, conversation only, and all lesson plans provided with undemanding students. I also turned down jobs paying 200 simply because I wasn't interested in privates. Though, I was in a more popular area of the city, if you're out in the sticks things could be different.
Changsha's also great, not as big as Wuhan so fewer choices. Both cities are good for the expat scene though. Some good wechat/facebook groups for foreigners to let them know what's going on. |
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Kalkstein
Joined: 25 Aug 2016
Posts: 80
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| thechangling wrote: |
It's also infested with some english language Training Centres which will not pay more that 120 RMB per hour for part time english language teachers and flog the skin off the chinese english teachers. |
That's pretty all of China you're describing though. 100-150 rmb/h for training centres. The only way people regularly earn more money is by operating their own school/private lessons in which case you can quadruple that. There's no need for training centres to pay more than that because they can usually find a replacement pretty easily. A lot of those that hire illegal just find cheap non-natives anyway.
On topic I'd agree with some points the OP made, however I've found increasingly that these one stop cities have permanent ESL teachers usually in the form of foreigners married to locals. There's quite a few in my city, there's also not as many jobs going. So sometimes people just take what they can get.
I regularly see one or two legitimate jobs advertising for between 7-14k. However most of the jobs are for 5,000-7,000 and they're looking for Russians. These schools typically treat teachers like crap so have an extraordinary turnover rate. I suppose my point is that sure these cities have a high turnover rate but they also have many permanent foreigners too because a) Not everyone teaches English and b) A lot of people who marry can't find work elsewhere so take up work teaching English.
It is surprisingly competitive. As for Wuhan and Zhengzhou I've been to both and personally feel they're both really shit places to live but not every foreigner living in these places lives there because they want to, they probably have other commitments that tie them down. |
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Foo_Fighters_Dave
Joined: 09 Dec 2016
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for replying to my questions guys.
I am currently making a lot of money in Saudi Arabia but have thought about spending a year or two in China eventually. I have heard great things about Changsha, Wuhan, Nanjing and Wuxi. I have thought about living and working in those cities.
I used to live in city called Daegu in South Korea. Great expat scene. We had bowling, softball, pub crawls, bands, and it was a great place to live.
I lived in Shanghai in 2010 but didn't really like it. It may have been because of my job (Walt Disney English) and almost half of my salary went to my apartment (rent, utilities, etc). It was a pretty swanky place but it was a money pit. |
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tin man
Joined: 18 Jun 2010
Posts: 137
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Now here's some downsides:
- The cost of rent is absolutely obscene.
- After subtracting taxes, student loans, and rent, you'll be better off in China unless you're earning 50k+ back in the UK.
- Nightlife costs a fortune.
- Much easier to get dates in China.
- 3 months+ paid vacation in China. 5 weeks in the UK, because 99% of the people who work in China wouldn't be qualified to work in a school back in the UK.
- If they were qualified, they wouldn't want to work in a UK school anyway as it's pretty much the worst job in the whole country.
- Work life balance in general sucks. UK employers demand an awful lot more than Chinese employers. |
I could make similar comments about the US as I have been back here a few years now and frustrated with the job market. Teaching can be more rewarding in China. My worry is my health, as the last time I got a bad cough. |
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rocket man
Joined: 19 Dec 2015
Posts: 110
Location: Raleigh NC USA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Foo_Fighters_Dave wrote: |
Thank you for replying to my questions guys.
I am currently making a lot of money in Saudi Arabia but have thought about spending a year or two in China eventually. I have heard great things about Changsha, Wuhan, Nanjing and Wuxi. I have thought about living and working in those cities.
I used to live in city called Daegu in South Korea. Great expat scene. We had bowling, softball, pub crawls, bands, and it was a great place to live.
I lived in Shanghai in 2010 but didn't really like it. It may have been because of my job (Walt Disney English) and almost half of my salary went to my apartment (rent, utilities, etc). It was a pretty swanky place but it was a money pit. |
Nanjing is nice, good expat scene (I still go over there on occasion) not as hectic as Shanghai, if want the perks of Shanghai its only 90 minutes-2 hours via the bullet train. I know people who do day trips there.
I lived in Gyeongju (yes the old Shilla Capital) not far from Daegu and used to go there a lot for big city fixes. I remember two things about it, sprawling and incredibly hot in the summer but I can see how you liked it. Personally when it came to Korea in all my time there (15 years) I really only liked 2 cities, Seoul and Daejeon. Seoul because it had everything you ever wanted and Daejeon because it was actually a nice well planned city now close to everything with the KTX
I'm in Shanghai now and I actually like it so far (if I can get my FEC and Residence Permit transferred that is getting to be nuts) I'm out in the sticks in Huinan off line 16 so my rent isn't bad but its a long way from the action. Would I like to be in closer? Heck yes but don't want to pay the rent. Maybe in a year or two I can move to a school closer into the city with a bigger housing allowance |
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