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HK vs China earning potential
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Jmbf



Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 663

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:11 am    Post subject: HK vs China earning potential Reply with quote

Hi all,

After a bit of back and forth in the earlier Macau thread I started wondering. What's the realistic earning potential for a teacher in HK vs China? I understand that this is a very broad question but perhaps with some discussion we can settle on a realistic range of income starting from newbie through to an experienced teacher?

Everyone knows that at the entry-level at least, China offers a relatively more relaxed lifestyle with far fewer hours and a much lower cost of living. However, when it comes to HK, the discussion seems to always focus on the higher cost of living while ignoring the higher earning potential. This earning potential in HK seems to be very much under-estimated IMHO.

However, as always I could be wrong. Discussion on this is always welcomed!
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GHL



Joined: 16 Jul 2017
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's higher potential in HK for sure. Difficult to get 500hkd an hour in China.

If say providing you live in a decent sized city...think tier 1 or 2...then 300rmb an hour is achievable. Which is obviously still substantially less than 500hkd.

Uni jobs in China offer an hourly rate that rivals that of HK, with the qualifier that it might take a year working in a worse place before you can get one of the decent jobs. Private language centres generally suck...when you work put the hourly it's usually between 100-150rmb. Public schools are a mixed bag but you aren't going to earn what you would on the NET scheme. Plus it means you have to teach kids...

Basically, I'd go for uni jobs in China as a newbie or as someone who only wants to work a few hours a week. HK you can make more money if you want to work yourself into the ground and hustle for a I'll time job+privates.

Realistic in China for an average uni teacher? I'd say 10000rmb a month is the most you're getting from.a uni unless it's a western joint venture. Then let's add 10 hours of privates a week at 300rmb, so another 12000 a month. So in total, around 22000 a month+free accommodation. That's a realistic, sustainable workload IMO, but it won't happen overnight.

There's international schools in China that pay 30000rmb+ a month, but you need to be a licenced teacher for those jobs.
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siologen



Joined: 25 Oct 2016
Posts: 336

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:14 am    Post subject: re: agreed Reply with quote

Quote:
It's higher potential in HK for sure. Difficult to get 500hkd an hour in China.


I agree there is potential to get higher pay per hour for private classes, but that is offset by the higher living costs though. But you are right, definitely possible to earn more per class than in China.
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yurii



Joined: 12 Jan 2017
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going back to my unanswered question in the other thread, what is the point in a teacher with a lack of qualifications/experience going to HK to work if all they can get is 20,000 HKD a month? (I'm not necessarily referring to myself as I have an MA in TESOL and am a licensed secondary school teacher)

I doubt sharing for the 5-7,000 HKD Jmbf mentioned would be that pleasant a place; and, is it really worth going all the way to Hong Kong just to be living frugally? I say this given that other places offer a better cost of living comparison for the newbie.
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Jmbf



Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 663

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firstly, you have to ask yourself what are you looking for? What kind of teacher are you? I've mentioned before that if you want a more laid-back and easy-going lifestyle with a very low hour job, then Hong Kong might not be for you. That's fair enough. On the other hand, if you are someone who is willing to work hard and has some motivation to do better, then Hong Kong still has lots of potential.

People sometimes fixate on the negative aspects of the entry-level side of things. HKD 20K won't provide you with an amazing lifestyle but you can still be comfortable and save a reasonable amount at that level. The quality of flat shares varies, but with some effort you can find nice ones within HKD 5-7K. Here's one example but there are plenty of others like it:

https://geoexpat.com/classifieds/apartments/shared-flats-available/ad/426348

MORE importantly, if you are a dedicated and hard-working teacher, you won't stay on 20K for long. Gain some local experience, network, improve your skill set and you can quite easily move up the ladder. Language centre positions can pay up to 30K. Kindergartens and local schools can pay up to 40K. Beyond that, the EDB NET scheme pays up to approx 75K. In addition, many teachers choose to supplement their income with private students. It's not uncommon to see teachers combining school / centre work with private tuition on the side and seeing income in excess of 40-50K.
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Jmbf



Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 663

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's take a look and break down the savings potential for a new teacher. Let's assume 20K / month is the starting salary.

Using a flat share like the one I posted just above we have:

Accommodation: HKD 6,300
Utilities: HKD 500
Food: HKD 4,000
Transportation: HKD 1,000
Misc expenses: HKD 1,000
Entertainment: HKD 1,000

If you add that up you come to HKD 13,800.

Now, from the 20K / month salary, HKD 1,000 will be automatically deducted and put into your MPF (a government mandated savings plan). The employer will match your contribution (i.e. HKD 1,000) so effectively right off the bat you are saving HKD 2,000 (USD 256) without doing anything.

So, after deducting your MPF, you are left with HKD 19,000. Subtract your monthly living expenses and you are left with HKD 5,200 (USD 666). Add on your MPF savings and that brings the total monthly savings to HKD 7,200 (USD 923). I think that compares quite favourably with entry-level savings possible in China, although of course you will be working more hours in HK.

You will have some tax to pay out of that, approx HKD 500 / month, so bear that into your calculations.

So the savings potential isn't that bad if you are willing to be temporarily frugal, even at entry-level. If you take the longer-term view that your income will rise after a year or so, then you can take some comfort from the fact that your situation will become progressively better year-by-year.
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GHL



Joined: 16 Jul 2017
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jmbf wrote:
Let's take a look and break down the savings potential for a new teacher. Let's assume 20K / month is the starting salary.

Using a flat share like the one I posted just above we have:

Accommodation: HKD 6,300
Utilities: HKD 500
Food: HKD 4,000
Transportation: HKD 1,000
Misc expenses: HKD 1,000
Entertainment: HKD 1,000

If you add that up you come to HKD 13,800.

Now, from the 20K / month salary, HKD 1,000 will be automatically deducted and put into your MPF (a government mandated savings plan). The employer will match your contribution (i.e. HKD 1,000) so effectively right off the bat you are saving HKD 2,000 (USD 256) without doing anything.

So, after deducting your MPF, you are left with HKD 19,000. Subtract your monthly living expenses and you are left with HKD 5,200 (USD 666). Add on your MPF savings and that brings the total monthly savings to HKD 7,200 (USD 923). I think that compares quite favourably with entry-level savings possible in China, although of course you will be working more hours in HK.

You will have some tax to pay out of that, approx HKD 500 / month, so bear that into your calculations.

So the savings potential isn't that bad if you are willing to be temporarily frugal, even at entry-level. If you take the longer-term view that your income will rise after a year or so, then you can take some comfort from the fact that your situation will become progressively better year-by-year.


What you're leaving out is that life absolutely SUCKS. Housesharing is for college students and you certainly don't want to be doing it overseas.

And 1000hkd a MONTH for entertainment? So in other words, no entertainment. 1000hkd is a sensible budget for a WEEK of entertainment. There's more to life than work and money, and if all you're doing is working and sitting at home in your free time you might as well be dead.
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siologen



Joined: 25 Oct 2016
Posts: 336

PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:54 pm    Post subject: re: at home... Reply with quote

A lot of older FT's who are tired after teaching many classes are perfectly happy sat at home, chilling out after classes. 1,000 HKD per week buys a lot of booze to drink at home and avoid the maddening crowds. You may find you tire of the entertainment scene and venturing out into the humidity, so staying at home a lot suits many older FT's, so each to their own I guess......
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GHL



Joined: 16 Jul 2017
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:57 pm    Post subject: Re: re: at home... Reply with quote

siologen wrote:
A lot of older FT's who are tired after teaching many classes are perfectly happy sat at home, chilling out after classes. 1,000 HKD per week buys a lot of booze to drink at home and avoid the maddening crowds. You may find you tire of the entertainment scene and venturing out into the humidity, so staying at home a lot suits many older FT's, so each to their own I guess......


Jmbf was saying 1000hkd a month for entertainment. So 250hkd a week - i.e nowhere near enough.
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Jmbf



Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 663

PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GHL wrote:
What you're leaving out is that life absolutely SUCKS. Housesharing is for college students and you certainly don't want to be doing it overseas.


What are you basing your statement on? Your own personal experience? Have you lived and worked in HK? Have you flat shared? The way you word your statements makes them seem as though they are the absolute truth whereas in fact they are just your own personal opinion. How can you possibly claim to confidently speak for the vast multitude of teachers of different backgrounds, ages and personalities? The truth is you can't. In fact, many young professionals across many industries flat share in HK, it's fairly common. And in reality, the experience of flat sharing varies for different people. Some experiences are bad, some are ok and some are good. As part of the due diligence of searching for a flat, finding out about your potential flat mates must be a core part of your research.

If you look at the example I posted above, you'd be living in a modern apartment with mountain views and good facilities. A quick elevator's ride down and you'd find a concierge, swimming pools, gyms, sports courts, games rooms, a BBQ area etc etc etc. Think of the opportunities that provides. And how many teachers could say the same of their China-provided accommodation?

GHL wrote:
And 1000hkd a MONTH for entertainment? So in other words, no entertainment. 1000hkd is a sensible budget for a WEEK of entertainment. There's more to life than work and money, and if all you're doing is working and sitting at home in your free time you might as well be dead.


This all depends on your lifestyle preferences. Not everyone is the same as Siologen mentioned in his post above. It's perfectly possible to have a life on HKD 1,000 / month if you know where to go. Happy hour is buy one get one free for HKD 60-70 or so in many bars. 6 beers in an ice bucket can be had for less than HKD 200 in some local bars. Cinema tickets are HKD 70 or less on Tuesdays. Normal meals out can be had for less than HKD 100 / head. Even at more upmarket restaurants, if you go with friends and catch the right promotions you can have a decent meal with wine for 200 - 300 per head. Many activities are free, such as hiking or going to the beach. You can catch a cheap ferry out to some of the outlying islands and have a leisurely hike, or a picnic, or just rest on the beach. With that in mind you can do plenty on that budget. Sure, you're not going to be living it up at the Champagne bar at the Grand Hyatt, but there are plenty of things that you can do. Plus there's always the option of spending a bit more if you want to. I did include another HKD 1,000 in my budget for misc, so part (or all) of that could go towards your entertainment fund if you so wanted.
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yurii



Joined: 12 Jan 2017
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info Jmbf, it's very useful.

Jmbf wrote:
GHL wrote:
What you're leaving out is that life absolutely SUCKS. Housesharing is for college students and you certainly don't want to be doing it overseas.


What are you basing your statement on? Your own personal experience? Have you lived and worked in HK? Have you flat shared? The way you word your statements makes them seem as though they are the absolute truth whereas in fact they are just your own personal opinion. How can you possibly claim to confidently speak for the vast multitude of teachers of different backgrounds, ages and personalities? The truth is you can't.


+1

GHL, I'm sorry but I think you're being a bit narrow-minded with some of your views. Not everyone thinks like you. The world is full of different people.
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Mr. Kalgukshi
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Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My suggestion is that the thread topic be addressed and the personal asides cease ASAP, as they cause threads to derail. If this thread is derailed, there will be sanctions that can and do include permanent bans along with ISPs.
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Jmbf



Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 663

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright, for the sake of argument let's say that saving money is not your priority. So let's bump up the entertainment budget to HKD 3,000. Together with your HKD 1,000 misc budget this gets you to HKD 4,000 / month for entertainment expenses. So how does the overall budget and potential savings look now?

Accommodation: HKD 6,300
Utilities: HKD 500
Food: HKD 4,000
Transportation: HKD 1,000
Misc expenses: HKD 1,000
Entertainment: HKD 3,000

That totals up to HKD 15,800. That still leaves us with HKD 3,200 (USD 410) leftover, plus the HKD 2,000 (USD 256) in your MPF, totalling HKD 5,200 (USD 666) per month. That's not enough savings for my liking, but for others it could well be enough. And I still think that savings level compares quite favourably vs many other countries.
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GHL



Joined: 16 Jul 2017
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Realistic budget for people who want a reasonable quality of life:

Accomodation: 10,000HKD for a studio apartment. Non-shared of course, like is standard in every other ESL destination on Earth.
Food: 4,000HKD
Transport: 1,000HKD
Entertainment: 4,000HKD
Vacations: Let's say 48,000 for 4 weeks, which amortises to 4,000HKD a month.

So, 10k+4k+1k+4k+4k = 23k a month is needed for a reasonable lifestyle. Factor in that we have some taxes to pay, and the overall amount needed for a decent life (with no savings) stands at around 25k a month.

So really, if you're coming to HK, don't accept less than 25000HKD a month. If you want decent savings, you'll need to be looking at 35k+ jobs. Now yeah those 35k jobs exist but a newbie aint gonna be getting them and they'll require reasonable qualifications.

Come to HK once you're all qualified up and have a few years of experience behind you so you can land the decent jobs at a university or on the NET scheme. Slaving away in language centres as a newbie isn't the way to a happy life IMO, you're better off on the mainland if your qualifications and experience are low.
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yurii



Joined: 12 Jan 2017
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GHL wrote:
Realistic budget for people who want a reasonable quality of life:

Accommodation: 10,000HKD for a studio apartment. Non-shared of course, like is standard in every other ESL destination on Earth.



Since when has this been standard? It's certainly not in France.
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