Job Discussion Forums

Capergirl · Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 12:32 pm Post subject: Patriotism

Is anyone else surprised by the country-bashing we see on this forum from time to time? I know we are all patriotic to some degree - and with good reason, to be sure - but the frequent bickering and put-downs between Americans, Canadians, English, Scots, and Australians in particular can be a little off-putting at times. As a Canadian, I love to give my American neighbours a little "shot in the arm" in jest now and then Wink

but never in a "hey, you American A-hole" kind of way. I love my country and I'm proud to be Canadian, but Canada has its faults like any other nation. I don't think being Canadian makes me better than someone from another country.

So what's with the rivalries here? Are we in high school? Laughing

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

Scots are born with a gene that makes them support any team that England are playing.

stillnosheep · Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 2068 Location: eslcafe

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

Are you suggesting that the English are W**nkers. I certainly wouldn't go that far

Atlas · Joined: 09 Jun 2003 Posts: 662 Location: By-the-Sea PRC

Who said this:

"There are two things I cant stand in this world. Intolerance of other peoples culture, and the Dutch. "

mjed9 · Joined: 25 Oct 2003 Posts: 242

Nigel "you haven't even got a name badge" Powers!

isabel · Joined: 07 Mar 2003 Posts: 510 Location: God's green earth

I'm from the U.S., but it is an accident of birth. I don't believe in nationalism, hence, I don't believe in patriotism.

Say what you want about the U.S. If it is true, so be it. If it isn't, then I may correct your mistake- not out of allegience to the U.S. but out of loyalty to the truth.

guest of Japan · Joined: 28 Feb 2003 Posts: 1601 Location: Japan

Nationalism and patriotism are different things. It's just that the line between the two is often blurry.

stillnosheep · Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 2068 Location: eslcafe

stillnosheep · Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 2068 Location: eslcafe

denise · Joined: 23 Apr 2003 Posts: 3419 Location: finally home-ish

I am American, and I am very critical of my country. I'm not saying that I don't like the United States; merely that I am critical of it. (Although I often end up not liking it...)

I get really annoyed when I read or hear comments along the lines of "you Americans..." followed by a litany of charges against us. The people who make such accusations usually have very well-thought-out arguments, but the one ability they lack is the ability to separate the government from its people. NOT all Americans think alike; NOT all of us are ignoramuses; SOME of us can actually locate Canada and Mexico on a map. I have a generally favorable opinion of my fellow EFL/ESL teachers, as they are a worldly and well-traveled bunch by definition, but I quickly lose respect for people who make assumptions about me and my ideologies (which are QUITE unpopular back home) based simply on where I was born.

I've heard of studies about in-group/out-group treatment--groups of women can jokingly refer to each other as b*tches, and as long as it's done among women/friends, it's OK. But when an outsider steps in and uses the term, it becomes offensive. I feel the same way about America-bashing--as an "insider," I feel (and I know this is going to come out wrong and I am going to get flamed for it, but I cannot think of a better way of expressing it right now...) like I have more of a right to bash the US of A than non-Americans. The bashing quickly becomes offensive when it comes from "outsiders."

d

JosephP · Joined: 13 May 2003 Posts: 445

The slagging does get a bit wearisome.
Several years ago, well about 10 or 11 years ago I guess, I was visiting in the States when I came across this ad in the "Help Wanted" section, "Ex-patriot (sic) wanted for oversees (sic) posting." "Hell," I thought, "I'm not so fond of my country and I suppose I could be a pretty damn fine straw-boss."

thelmadatter · Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 10:19 pm Post subject:

Hear, hear Capergirl

I enjoy good-natured ribbing and it seems that the ones who do it best in my experience are Canadians. Laughing

Im from the NYC area where humor based on ethnicity, nationality, religion does not NECESSARILY have hate-speech connotations. A lot of it is reflected in TV shows, esp. cop shows and comedians like Seinfeld. I had to change A LOT after I left home to live in various places in the States - my New York sense of humor got me into A LOT of trouble!

On the other hand, I do get really annoyed with the "America/white people-etc are the root of all evil" attitude. Way over simplistic and just as hateful as the stuff the ones spewing this stuff profess to work against.

khmerhit · Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 10:35 pm Post subject:

I hate Trafalmadorians. What are you gonna do Capes, call the PC police?

kh Wink

Atlas · Joined: 09 Jun 2003 Posts: 662 Location: By-the-Sea PRC

Too bad we can't bottle up the expat experience for mass consumption, maybe there would be a little more humility and peaceful effort in this world. No matter how good or refined a culture is, if there is no accomodation of other cultures, or exposure to them, it's missing something.

What about us who do have the expat experience but bring along all those provincial attitudes. What a waste!

Thanks for bringing it up Capergirl (and others). I've learned 3 things being abroad:

1. More people "hate" America than Americans may realize
2. I was guilty of cultural complacency and blindered vision back home
3. America and Western Europe should remain strong friends, we owe a lot to each other. I for one never insulted my European friends and I don't like it when they insult me, however "playful". Once I was walking with my good Brit friend, and when we passed the American embassy he pretended to spit on it. My father would have beaten him to the ground. I said,"I'm used to it by now" and let it pass. Although I am American, I would never dream of spitting on my friend's cultures. That's the real American dream, in my opinion.