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leretif9
Joined: 24 Mar 2013
Posts: 152
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 Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:58 pm Post subject: What are optimal times of the year to start ESl work in SH? |
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What are the optimal times of the year to start ESL work in Shanghai?
Is early May doable?
My quals: minimal. Native speaker from the US, BA in English, TEFL Cert. from Oxford Seminars.
Thanks in advance... |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:25 am Post subject: |
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Language schools - pretty much anytime. That's due to turnover.
Public system - 1 Sept i.e. start of new school year, plus Feb (actual date varies*) which marks the start of Semester 2 and is after NY holiday.
*Chinese NY is lunar and moves back and forward. |
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leretif9
Joined: 24 Mar 2013
Posts: 152
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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So, could I start at a language school, teach there for a few months, then transfer to a public school for September?
This is Shanghai we're talking about.
Thanks. |
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rocket man
Joined: 19 Dec 2015
Posts: 110
Location: Raleigh NC USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| you could but you'd need a letter of release from your previous employer and the process now to transfer a work permit is a pain at best |
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leretif9
Joined: 24 Mar 2013
Posts: 152
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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So, would the best bet be to go for a public school from the get-go?
Again, I haven't taught ESL before, and my qualifications are minimal. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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There can be late hires in the public system for the current academic year which started 1 Sept.
The next main hiring bubble will be for Feb-ish 2018.
So apply for jobs on Dave's and get yourself listed on seriousteachers.com
The latter means schools and agents come to you. When you have an offer come back on Dave's and ask for comment.
Go through due diligence though by asking the school the questions posted on the 'Job Offer Checklist' thread.
Keep applying until you have the offer letter. Don't let up because you thing you have something 'in the bag'. |
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leretif9
Joined: 24 Mar 2013
Posts: 152
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Excellent. Thanks for this. |
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Modernist
Joined: 03 Jan 2016
Posts: 72
Location: Routing
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:49 am Post subject: |
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Just remember, when considering public schools in China...class sizes. They can be crazy. 50 kids is entirely normal, packed into a tiered room. I've seen videos on YouTube or someplace showing foreign teachers in their classrooms. Taken from security cameras I believe. Try doing an image search too. That's what you'd be dealing with. With no experience as you say. Do you have any idea how to maintain order in a classroom, of any size? Before anything from a TEFL cert is even in play, you need to make sure they can focus on you. Even 20 kids can be a challenge. More than double that...and...?
If you have zero experience then let me help you out. No, you do not have any idea how to handle that. Are you so sure you want to do PS? Why? You'd be better off trying to figure things out in a training center with some other foreigners to give you pointers, and smaller classes, and a curriculum most likely. In a PS you'll be more than likely alone, with a terrible book at best (or nothing), and a huge group of extremely diverse kids generating a level of noise you might previously have only associated with industrial machinery.
Before focusing so much on public school, ask yourself why you are choosing that route. If you really want to do it, then fine, but make sure your reasons are clear. |
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papuadn
Joined: 19 Sep 2016
Posts: 131
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:16 am Post subject: |
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| Modernist wrote: |
| Just remember, when considering public schools in China...class sizes. They can be crazy. 50 kids is entirely normal, packed into a tiered room. I've seen videos on YouTube or someplace showing foreign teachers in their classrooms. Taken from security cameras I believe. Try doing an image search too. That's what you'd be dealing with. |
50 is not a norm I, nor any colleagues, have experienced.
Maybe a survey of forum members would dispel such exaggeration, or my own account. Image searches are useful, though not any used as promotional material by training schools that typically require employees to contractually agree to their likeness being so used.
Citing "security cameras" in public schools is an ominous aside (insinuation) without context or basis as the advice pertains to class size.
| Quote: |
| With no experience as you say. Do you have any idea how to maintain order in a classroom, of any size? Before anything from a TEFL cert is even in play, you need to make sure they can focus on you. Even 20 kids can be a challenge. More than double that...and...? |
Oh, focus is assured, a more vital question is are your lessons and minimal teacher talk adequately aligned to accomplish meaningful engagement, which is a never ending process. Simply admitting the pros and cons of the step-by-step procedure of a training school versus creatively and independently applying what one has trained for is a fairer language.
| Quote: |
| If you have zero experience then let me help you out. No, you do not have any idea how to handle that. Are you so sure you want to do PS? Why? You'd be better off trying to figure things out in a training center with some other foreigners to give you pointers, and smaller classes, and a curriculum most likely. In a PS you'll be more than likely alone... |
I'm unsure why Modernist believes other foreigners are not available for consultation at public schools. Nor why they have excluded what role managers play in formative and summative evaluations of new hires-- effectively caught in a conflict of receiving bonuses and keeping salary wages as low as possible.
Frankly, the post quoted above has all the earmarks of marketing language, but the hyperbole and insinuations are gross. |
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Mr. Kalgukshi
Mod Team
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 6613
Location: Need to know basis only.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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Several off-topic postings have been deleted. Future derailing and off-topic postings will result in sanctions.
I kid you not. |
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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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What are the optimal times of the year to start ESL work in Shanghai?
Jobs are available yearlong throughout China. While it is true that application for the fall semester is the best (application March through June), application from November through January can result in employment at a pretty good school. You never know. There might be an opening at mid-year at a school because an FT has been let go for prancing about campus in his speedos. FTs are let go at a lot of schools for all sorts of reasons. |
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kev20
Joined: 31 Jul 2013
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| papuadn wrote: |
| Modernist wrote: |
| Just remember, when considering public schools in China...class sizes. They can be crazy. 50 kids is entirely normal, packed into a tiered room. I've seen videos on YouTube or someplace showing foreign teachers in their classrooms. Taken from security cameras I believe. Try doing an image search too. That's what you'd be dealing with. |
50 is not a norm I, nor any colleagues, have experienced.
Maybe a survey of forum members would dispel such exaggeration, or my own account. Image searches are useful, though not any used as promotional material by training schools that typically require employees to contractually agree to their likeness being so used.
Citing "security cameras" in public schools is an ominous aside (insinuation) without context or basis as the advice pertains to class size.
| Quote: |
| With no experience as you say. Do you have any idea how to maintain order in a classroom, of any size? Before anything from a TEFL cert is even in play, you need to make sure they can focus on you. Even 20 kids can be a challenge. More than double that...and...? |
Oh, focus is assured, a more vital question is are your lessons and minimal teacher talk adequately aligned to accomplish meaningful engagement, which is a never ending process. Simply admitting the pros and cons of the step-by-step procedure of a training school versus creatively and independently applying what one has trained for is a fairer language.
| Quote: |
| If you have zero experience then let me help you out. No, you do not have any idea how to handle that. Are you so sure you want to do PS? Why? You'd be better off trying to figure things out in a training center with some other foreigners to give you pointers, and smaller classes, and a curriculum most likely. In a PS you'll be more than likely alone... |
I'm unsure why Modernist believes other foreigners are not available for consultation at public schools. Nor why they have excluded what role managers play in formative and summative evaluations of new hires-- effectively caught in a conflict of receiving bonuses and keeping salary wages as low as possible.
Frankly, the post quoted above has all the earmarks of marketing language, but the hyperbole and insinuations are gross. |
50 students or thereabouts is the norm in China in my experience, unless you're in a new school, an international school or some other school for rich kids, which obviously wouldn't be usual.
I've worked in Jiangsu and Guangdong provinces and it's always been 45-50 students. Maybe Shanghai is special but given the population I very much doubt it. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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The Chinese teaching model relies heavily on rote and large class sizes aren't so relevant in that mode.
For Oral English it does become a problem and it is this aspect of language that FTs most often get to teach.
I think OP should be mindful of what to expect but shopping around for a lower class-size gig is not a good use of time. Look at the other issues as per the Job Offer thread. |
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getbehindthemule
Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 712
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:45 am Post subject: |
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@kev20 & OP
It's the same in Shanghai. At my school (experimental) it is 40, but that's on the small side for public school class sizes here! |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:26 am Post subject: |
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Another way of looking at it is to divide the number of students into the class minutes available each semester less say 20 percent for non student-centred time.
Most places I've taught give only 90 mins per week per class. (18-week semesters).
OP should have a plan i.e 'by week 9 I should have completed X' |
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