Site Search:
 
Get TEFL Certified & Start Your Adventure Today!
Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Shanghai questions from a novice ESL teacher
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> China (Job-related Posts Only)
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
leretif9



Joined: 24 Mar 2013
Posts: 152

PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:21 pm    Post subject: Shanghai questions from a novice ESL teacher Reply with quote

Hi,

I'm a native speaker of English (US) with a BA in English and a TEFL cert from Oxford Seminars. In other words, I have no illusions about how stellar my qualifications are.

Nothing next to nothing about China, my plan at this starting point is to line up an ESL gig in Shanghai for Fall 2018, teach for at least a year, with a goal of saving -- hopefully -- 1000 USD or as close to that as humanly possible per month, and then head back to South America and try to make a living doing private classes.

This is what I read from elsewhere on this board:

"...public school gigs (primary/middle/high) seem to have the best packages considering the relatively light workload. You also have evenings and weekends to yourself and long holidays. 4 weeks for spring festival and 8 weeks for Summer. It also has the advantage of being offered private work from parents, work colleagues, etc. once you establish yourself and gain their trust.

Each to their own, but I wouldn't even consider a language mill position. It's probably true that it's not a bad idea for new teachers that come to China to work at one of these places for their first year before moving on. But be wary that you'll be working unsociable hours and may have to deal with a lot of bs!...

1. Where specifically should I start looking for what's described as a public school gig here? With, hopefully, a generous or at least adequate housing allowance and compensation on the price of the air tickets?

2. What are people's feelings about teaching ESL and living in Dalian and Kunming? How tough is it for newbies to find work there? I assume they won't pay as much as Shanghai.

Beijing sounds in may ways more interesting than Shanghai, but many people who've been to China tell me the drawbacks are that you can't breathe the air, you can't drink the water, and that the food is often contaminated as well.

Any and all insights here are greatly appreciated.

thanks in advance,

Le Retif
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China

PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well you are certainly planning ahead. My exp is that unis and vocationals are the best bet for accommodation on campus. The students live on campus so a bit more housing for FTs and other staff isn't a big ask.
There's still the Spring semester hiring season to get through before Fall 2018. It's not anywhere as big as Fall, but is significant if you can be ready by Feb.
First steps: Register on SeriousTeachers.com that way you will get people coming to you. Take a look at the thread 'Job Offer Checklist'.
Other comment: Dalian is relatively clean. You are right to steer away from language schools for your first job. There enough hassles in just getting started in China
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Modernist



Joined: 03 Jan 2016
Posts: 72
Location: Routing

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, a year in advance is pretty nuts in this country. They usually don't really have next week totally sketched out. There's no chance whatsoever you will sort out a job for next fall until, generously, around May. So you are way ahead of yourself.

As for your points, the thing as usual is the question of balance. Which is more important to you, a Western-friendly life, or saving more money? Shanghai is super expensive, bottom line. There are temptations to spend around every corner. The cost of everything is higher, sometimes much higher, than other cities. Housing will be worse if it's provided, I've heard about shared accommodation in some cases (they try it to see if any suckers will bite). As a newbie trying to get your own apartment is very much not advised. You may earn more but more will go out the door as well, no matter how you plan.

You will NEVER get a 'generous' housing allowance in China. Bog-standard native ESL teachers, such as you, don't qualify for such things. If you were certified and able to qualify at the international schools, maybe. Here you would be looking at maybe a couple thousand RMB for rent, plus a deposit of first and last and a security. 3 months, plus first month. Say 8-10,000. School is not paying that, for sure. If you're lucky the provided housing will be adequate, if not spacious (in Shanghai), and solo.

Flight probably wouldn't be paid till near the end of the contract, just so you know.

Dalian is pretty nice but mostly university jobs up there. You can expect 1000 USD total monthly salary at those. Would not really recommend Kunming. Lot of the foreigners there just want the 'China experience', whatever that is, and money is of less concern. Oversupply of people to jobs, in other words. Quite a number of lifers out there too, and also many language learners (heard it's one of the best places if you actually care about getting competent in Mandarin, as I do not).

I would say you are pretty off base about Beijing. The water there is the same as everywhere else (don't drink tap straight but it's fine for showering/teeth, etc, get bottles for cheap or filters, whatever). The food contamination is about the same as anywhere else, too. Street food in China is always a little risky, but then that's no different than anywhere in Asia. Restaurant food is perfectly fine in 99.9% of cases. The air CAN be a challenge, but it's much better than it was even a couple years ago. The days of 'airpocylypse' are not so many. Last time I was there maybe a month ago it was a crystal blue day, beautiful. You do not need a mask to live there, or only rarely.

If you are actually coming here you need to get off the certainty kick and deal with not knowing exactly what you're going to get. That's life in this country. Being all rigid and wanting to plan everything out is not the way they do things here. You'll have a good number of WTF moments, things that make you furious or appalled or feel totally disgusted, whatever. Got to be able to shake that off and go about your day.

If you want savings then you need the rich provinces outside the biggest cities, like Jiangsu where I live. If you want comfort then go ahead and do Shanghai or Beijing, but expect to save little. If you want 'real China', according to various nutjob foreigners, then hey, go off and explore Shanxi or Guizhou or Anhui or some other backwater.

Oh, and don't forget you'll be dealing with 50 students or even more in a public school class in this country. You need to have good classroom management skills to deal with 50 hormonal or half-wild Chinese teenagers (30 is about the max I will do, even that's too many).

And don't assume anything about privates. You never know how that's actually going to work out until you arrive.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forgot to mention that Dalian has been mentioned in another thread as the place where authorities are cracking down on irregulars. That has a downside if you are planning to come on a tourist visa and an upside if you are a bona fide FT on a Z.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
theoriginalprankster



Joined: 19 Mar 2012
Posts: 895

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Non Sequitur wrote:
Forgot to mention that Dalian has been mentioned in another thread as the place where authorities are cracking down on irregulars. That has a downside if you are planning to come on a tourist visa and an upside if you are a bona fide FT on a Z.


I've got the new work permit card and residence visa in passport. Can I change over mid-contract to a new job up in Dalian (or anywhere in China for that matter) without going though all the bollox of having degrees, etc notarized?

Can I just transfer my work permit card over to the new job?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
papuadn



Joined: 19 Sep 2016
Posts: 131

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theoriginalprankster wrote:
Can I just transfer my work permit card over to the new job?
I, for one, would be Shocked were it the case. Release letters are still probably the de facto hurdle to changing jobs at the will of the employed, versus the employer.

And if it's nitpicky, I apologize, (or if others believe I'm just wrong) but several members are, correctly, emphasizing the process of arriving in China on a Z-visa, because, typically, Z-visas are converted to a resident worker's permit and visa and this conversion must take place within 30 days.

It can be confusing because a resident worker permit & visa can be otherwise acquired, but only if the employer is registered in a database-- typically public institutions (and any affiliated private programs) versus commercial enterprise.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theoriginalprankster wrote:
Non Sequitur wrote:
Forgot to mention that Dalian has been mentioned in another thread as the place where authorities are cracking down on irregulars. That has a downside if you are planning to come on a tourist visa and an upside if you are a bona fide FT on a Z.


I've got the new work permit card and residence visa in passport. Can I change over mid-contract to a new job up in Dalian (or anywhere in China for that matter) without going though all the bollox of having degrees, etc notarized?

Can I just transfer my work permit card over to the new job?


If you've made a good choice of first job, why would you be contemplating a change?
If they do let you go expect just your salary to point of departure. No pro rated airfare or winter holiday pay.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
theoriginalprankster



Joined: 19 Mar 2012
Posts: 895

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Non Sequitur wrote:
theoriginalprankster wrote:
Non Sequitur wrote:
Forgot to mention that Dalian has been mentioned in another thread as the place where authorities are cracking down on irregulars. That has a downside if you are planning to come on a tourist visa and an upside if you are a bona fide FT on a Z.


I've got the new work permit card and residence visa in passport. Can I change over mid-contract to a new job up in Dalian (or anywhere in China for that matter) without going though all the bollox of having degrees, etc notarized?

Can I just transfer my work permit card over to the new job?


If you've made a good choice of first job, why would you be contemplating a change?
If they do let you go expect just your salary to point of departure. No pro rated airfare or winter holiday pay.


You may have read the thread of the hell I'm dealing with now. And there was no way of knowing what I was going to deal with until I started at the school.

I'm aware I'll walk away with my salary and no more.

You haven't/aren't able to answer the question I posed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually did this mid contract 2004 (my first year).
I started in Feb and by June I'd had enough.
This was in Dalian. A student friend came with me and we found the FAOs at 3 other nearby unis. Upshot I got offers from 2 - not from her school which was probably for the best .
The new school was much higher status than the original and the new FAO 'stood on' the old school in some opaque Chinese way.
The transfer was made and I had 3 very successful semesters at School B.
That was years ago but I still think status has a lot going for it.
Lesson is School B should outrank the original employer i.e Uni not vocational or nationally ranked rather than provincially ranked.
PM if you need any other info.
Best
NS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hz88



Joined: 27 Sep 2015
Posts: 162

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With regards to being released from your current employer there is much confusion over this. In the past it was a case of cancelling the FEC and obtaining the official cancellation letter and a letter from your current employer stating that you have finished your contract.

Two scenarios to deal with. One, if you have an ABC card then you will be in the work permit system which is now China wide. Two, you are still on the old system as your school did not change over to the new one and renewed the FEC books.

If you come under the first then your current employer has to log onto the Foreign Experts Management system and cancel your current ABC card and state you are no longer working for them. This will generate a pre formatted letter which you give to your new employer with a copy of the card. Your old school then return your old card to the issuing office. Your new school then starts the transfer process using the existing ID number you have. They can't do this until your old school has cancelled your card as your are blocked until its expiry.

If you are still on an FEC booklet then your school will have to cancel this and provide you with the cancellation letter and your new school make a fresh application under the new system. The application will be processed as a transfer and will need the cancellation letter of the FEC booklet.

In relation to providing authentication for renewals, if you are already in the system then it will have a copy of the documents previously provided. If the official rules are followed then you need to provide the same documents again however this seems to be being followed differently in different provinces. A recent experience of this was that we did not need them, what was fundamental was that the existing school released the ID number for us to proceed with the transfer.

Your new school will be best able to advise you what the local powers at be are asking for in this regard.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kalkstein



Joined: 25 Aug 2016
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

theoriginalprankster wrote:
Non Sequitur wrote:
Forgot to mention that Dalian has been mentioned in another thread as the place where authorities are cracking down on irregulars. That has a downside if you are planning to come on a tourist visa and an upside if you are a bona fide FT on a Z.


I've got the new work permit card and residence visa in passport. Can I change over mid-contract to a new job up in Dalian (or anywhere in China for that matter) without going though all the bollox of having degrees, etc notarized?

Can I just transfer my work permit card over to the new job?


I'm almost certain you can't because if you look at your card it's tied to a specific authority/government body (机关).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
leretif9



Joined: 24 Mar 2013
Posts: 152

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An ESL teacher in China tells me this:

"The training schools will work you hard and have high expectations on your teaching abilities. Your DOS, senior teacher supervisor will monitor you and constantly observe and evaulate your lessons. When I was working at __________, I usually averaged 25 hours/week, including working evening shifts during the week and working full day shifts on weekends. I did have two consecutive days off during the week. Some other foreign teachers at _______ were putting in 30+hours/week. I didn't want to work for an English language training school after my bad experience with ________.

"Unfortunately, for your lack of teaching experience starting with a training school might be your only option for now. You will have to grit and grind for your first year. However, if the Adult English language training school is reputable they will train you constantly and give you constant feedback from your lessons.

Reputable Adult English language training schools in China:

EF English First
Wall Street English
Meten English
Aston English

Do I, as a newbie, have to teach at a training school? Is a university gig out of reach, if my quals are being a native speaker, with a BA in English from a US university, a not-terribly impressive cert. from Oxford Seminars, and no previous experience?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those credentials are OK. Some kind of work exp would help - particularly if you can 'massage' the duties to appear training or mentoring-related.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
leretif9



Joined: 24 Mar 2013
Posts: 152

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks.

Any first hand info on how these places are as employers? In Shanghai?

EF English First
Wall Street English
Meten English
Aston English

Also, please, Shanghai vs. Beijing: pros and cons.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Modernist



Joined: 03 Jan 2016
Posts: 72
Location: Routing

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Unis in more outer provinces, as I said, are more desperate for native speakers. If you could craft some letters that seem plausible indicating prior experience you could likely be hired in places like Henan, Hubei, Anhui or someplace like that. Might take some time but you'd get in somewhere.

But there's the money issue. Pay at those schools is basically crap, only for people who already have income/savings from elsewhere, or who don't care about spending/buying anything (including the 'real China' weirdo contingent)....or, in theory, people who use them as a visa only and put all their effort into private work, which CAN work if you are in the right place and are lucky with making connections, personality, etc.

Unis in Beijing or Shanghai, not a chance. With those quals you'd need to work your way up from further away first. Most of the better ones would probably want you to just have better quals in the first place.

Those schools you mentioned are all meat grinders basically. Lots of people coming and going. The key thing is how's the management at the one branch you'd be at, and do you get a 100% solo non-shared accommodation.

SH and BJ have lots in common. Air is better in SH, I think some more variety in international food in BJ (embassies help a lot with that, I can't get really good Indian for example in SH but it's easy in BJ). Both generally rich and expensive. I personally think BJ is rather ugly outside its sleek new districts and buildings, and then the limited areas of restored hutongs, old gardens, etc. Lots of slab block apartments, hundreds of blocks of them in a row. Huge roads everywhere. Monotonous. SH is much more textured and pleasant to wander around. Shopping is the same. Dating is more or less the same too. BJ has pretty good bus service, very easy to use. SH has way better parks and open spaces. Both have excellent metro systems overall.

Just remember how huge Chinese cities are, in terms of area. BJ and SH are even more huge than normal. I read a story about an 'international school' in BJ, technically, but it was so far from any part of BJ a foreigner would want to visit, like 1.5 hours away, that for all intents and purposes you'd be better off living in Tianjin or Hebei and taking a direct train instead.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> China (Job-related Posts Only) All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Teaching Jobs in China
Teaching Jobs in China