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Tudor
Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 339
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 Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:20 am Post subject: |
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| nimadecaomei wrote: |
| I am pretty sure most, if not all, involve observations and reflection on practice as part of the assessment. |
Some do like the Sunderland and Keele ones, but probably the best known is Nottingham's which has no observations and is just assessed by four written tasks of 3000 words each. |
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getbehindthemule
Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 712
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:33 am Post subject: |
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Interesting post, and I must look into this, as I'm currently teaching Science in China and will most likely be here for the medium term (or in SEA at least).
Could sombody please give me an idea on how long it takes to complete and the cost of a PGCEi?
Edit: I'm fortunate to have a decent Science teaching position with just a BSc and TEFL. This is down to the lack of available Science teachers. Even in SH, where there are plenty of English teachers to fill the void, Science teachers are hard to find.
I'd imagine the PGCEi added to my 5 years of Science teaching experience would open a lot of doors into the better paid positions here in China. |
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nimadecaomei
Joined: 22 Sep 2016
Posts: 605
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:45 am Post subject: |
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| getbehindthemule wrote: |
Could sombody please give me an idea on how long it takes to complete and the cost of a PGCEi?
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It should be around 6000 pounds and take about a year to complete. Depending on the teaching situation and what program you go with. I would recommend the program I took, unfortunately it is still not publicly available in China. It was kind of in house where I used to work. I have a mate doing the Sunderland program at the moment and it seems good. His tutor came in two weeks ago for an observation and the principal is doing some as well. |
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getbehindthemule
Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 712
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:52 am Post subject: |
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| nimadecaomei wrote: |
| getbehindthemule wrote: |
Could sombody please give me an idea on how long it takes to complete and the cost of a PGCEi?
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It should be around 6000 pounds and take about a year to complete. Depending on the teaching situation and what program you go with. I would recommend the program I took, unfortunately it is still not publicly available in China. It was kind of in house where I used to work. I have a mate doing the Sunderland program at the moment and it seems good. His tutor came in two weeks ago for an observation and the principal is doing some as well. |
Thanks mate, so around 55k in rambos, it is a lot of money to fork out but something to consider for sure! I will have a full time job next year so would it be managable, doing this on the side? |
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LarssonCrew
Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 1308
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:59 am Post subject: |
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I think it was more like 3750, or something like that. With the weak pound it was about 30,000 RMB.
Also, you can pay in three instalments, so I paid 10000 at the start, 10000 in December and 10000 in February sometime.
Most people can find 30000 if you have a half decent job, especially in places like China. Doing two or three hours private a week would pay the course. |
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getbehindthemule
Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 712
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| LarssonCrew wrote: |
I think it was more like 3750, or something like that. With the weak pound it was about 30,000 RMB.
Also, you can pay in three instalments, so I paid 10000 at the start, 10000 in December and 10000 in February sometime.
Most people can find 30000 if you have a half decent job, especially in places like China. Doing two or three hours private a week would pay the course. |
The money is one side of it, having the free time to complete the course is another? |
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Tudor
Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 339
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:24 am Post subject: |
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Posters keep talking about this as if it's one generic qualification when it's not. There are several different providers charging different prices and offering a differing product under different names.
The ones I'm aware of are Nottingham's PGCEi, Sunderlands PGCE Education (IDL), Sheffield's iPGCE, Keele's PGCE International and Buckingham's International PGCE. There may well be others.
As I said, they are all different. For example, Nottingham's is about GBP 3,700 and there is no assessed teaching content (although they do require you to attend a pesky orientation course prior to commencement). Sunderland does have an assessed teaching aspect but is more expensive and obviously there is the added expense and logistics of completing the teaching practice. Presumably the latter qualification would be more respected by employers.
For the record, I haven't done any of them but a friend has done the Nottingham one and got a job in a lower-tier international school after finishing it. Whether he'd have got that job without this qualification is open to debate. |
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getbehindthemule
Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 712
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:45 am Post subject: |
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| Tudor wrote: |
Posters keep talking about this as if it's one generic qualification when it's not. There are several different providers charging different prices and offering a differing product under different names.
The ones I'm aware of are Nottingham's PGCEi, Sunderlands PGCE Education (IDL), Sheffield's iPGCE, Keele's PGCE International and Buckingham's International PGCE. There may well be others.
As I said, they are all different. For example, Nottingham's is about GBP 3,700 and there is no assessed teaching content (although they do require you to attend a pesky orientation course prior to commencement). Sunderland does have an assessed teaching aspect but is more expensive and obviously there is the added expense and logistics of completing the teaching practice. Presumably the latter qualification would be more respected by employers.
For the record, I haven't done any of them but a friend has done the Nottingham one and got a job in a lower-tier international school after finishing it. Whether he'd have got that job without this qualification is open to debate. |
Thanks for the added information. I'm employed in a similar position to your friend（without a PGCE) and I guess I'm trying to figure out is it worth it and is it doable from working in a full time position?
There is a pay structure here where a master's degree pays higher than a bachelors etc. But after doing time here I'm getting improved allowances and KT bonus monthly which makes up for the defecit.
The teachers in the IB departments in my school all have their PGCEs, from what I can gather, but their workload is far far greater.
For now, in my position, I don't think it's worthwhile but it most likely will be in the future if/when I want to change schools! Especially if I stay in China!! |
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1st Sgt Welsh
Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| Tudor wrote: |
| nimadecaomei wrote: |
| I am pretty sure most, if not all, involve observations and reflection on practice as part of the assessment. |
Some do like the Sunderland and Keele ones, but probably the best known is Nottingham's which has no observations and is just assessed by four written tasks of 3000 words each. |
Ah! In that case, if it doesn't have practical teaching components in front of real students, then I'd doubt if I'd bother with it. I'd be inclined to view it as largely akin to one of those online TEFL certificates. Often not worth the paper they are printed on, IMHO. |
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getbehindthemule
Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 712
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| 1st Sgt Welsh wrote: |
| Tudor wrote: |
| nimadecaomei wrote: |
| I am pretty sure most, if not all, involve observations and reflection on practice as part of the assessment. |
Some do like the Sunderland and Keele ones, but probably the best known is Nottingham's which has no observations and is just assessed by four written tasks of 3000 words each. |
Ah! In that case, if it doesn't have practical teaching components in front of real students, then I'd doubt if I'd bother with it. I'd be inclined to view it as largely akin to one of those online TEFL certificates. Often not worth the paper they are printed on, IMHO. |
This is a big concern, to invest that amount of time and money into it, for it not to be really worth it! I need to investigate further for sure. |
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Tudor
Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 339
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| 1st Sgt Welsh wrote: |
| Tudor wrote: |
| nimadecaomei wrote: |
| I am pretty sure most, if not all, involve observations and reflection on practice as part of the assessment. |
Some do like the Sunderland and Keele ones, but probably the best known is Nottingham's which has no observations and is just assessed by four written tasks of 3000 words each. |
Ah! In that case, if it doesn't have practical teaching components in front of real students, then I'd doubt if I'd bother with it. I'd be inclined to view it as largely akin to one of those online TEFL certificates. Often not worth the paper they are printed on, IMHO. |
While I understand your sentiment, I wouldn't go quite that far. Nottingham is a top 20 ranked university in the UK and the PGCEi can be used as credit for their MA Education - that's hardly akin to 'TEFL Boot Camp' or 'i to i' or whatever other nonsense is advertised on sites like this.
Nevertheless, I think the jury is still well and truly out on the usefulness of these qualifications both in terms of employment opportunities and improving one's classroom performance. |
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1st Sgt Welsh
Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Tudor wrote: |
| 1st Sgt Welsh wrote: |
| Tudor wrote: |
| nimadecaomei wrote: |
| I am pretty sure most, if not all, involve observations and reflection on practice as part of the assessment. |
Some do like the Sunderland and Keele ones, but probably the best known is Nottingham's which has no observations and is just assessed by four written tasks of 3000 words each. |
Ah! In that case, if it doesn't have practical teaching components in front of real students, then I'd doubt if I'd bother with it. I'd be inclined to view it as largely akin to one of those online TEFL certificates. Often not worth the paper they are printed on, IMHO. |
While I understand your sentiment, I wouldn't go quite that far. Nottingham is a top 20 ranked university in the UK and the PGCEi can be used as credit for their MA Education - that's hardly akin to 'TEFL Boot Camp' or 'i to i' or whatever other nonsense is advertised on sites like this.
Nevertheless, I think the jury is still well and truly out on the usefulness of these qualifications both in terms of employment opportunities and improving one's classroom performance. |
I understand where you are coming from and I lived in the UK and I know the University of Nottingham is well-respected. Also it is common for universities to allow completed post-graduate units to be transferred into a relevant higher degree. I'm sure the academics are good. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm just saying that if it didn't have that teaching component, for the international school market, then I would doubt that it would have that much 'street cred' in regards to employability. I would just fear that the jobs that you could get with it would often be the kind of jobs that you could have gotten anyway. |
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Tudor
Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 339
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I understand where you are coming from and I lived in the UK and I know the University of Nottingham is well-respected. Also it is common for universities to allow completed post-graduate units to be transferred into a relevant higher degree. I'm sure the academics are good. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm just saying that if it didn't have that teaching component, for the international school market, then I would doubt that it would have that much 'street cred' in regards to employability. I would just fear that the jobs that you could get with it would often be the kind of jobs that you could have gotten anyway. |
That is a very pertinent point although I suppose it could put a candidate's CV at the top of the pile if they have a piece of paper that other applicants don't. I guess there are a lot of quasi-international schools in places like China, Indonesia and Vietnam who don't pay enough to attract qualified teachers and have to make do with TEFLers chancing their arms. Therefore, a TEFLer with a 'PGCEi' from Nottingham University is possibly somewhat more desirable than a TEFLer without such a certificate if all else is equal.
Anyway, there are a number of lively discussions on other forums about these types of qualifications which may give further confirmation to interested parties about their usefulness or lack of. |
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1st Sgt Welsh
Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Tudor wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I understand where you are coming from and I lived in the UK and I know the University of Nottingham is well-respected. Also it is common for universities to allow completed post-graduate units to be transferred into a relevant higher degree. I'm sure the academics are good. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm just saying that if it didn't have that teaching component, for the international school market, then I would doubt that it would have that much 'street cred' in regards to employability. I would just fear that the jobs that you could get with it would often be the kind of jobs that you could have gotten anyway. |
That is a very pertinent point although I suppose it could put a candidate's CV at the top of the pile if they have a piece of paper that other applicants don't. I guess there are a lot of quasi-international schools in places like China, Indonesia and Vietnam who don't pay enough to attract qualified teachers and have to make do with TEFLers chancing their arms. Therefore, a TEFLer with a 'PGCEi' from Nottingham University is possibly somewhat more desirable than a TEFLer without such a certificate if all else is equal.
Anyway, there are a number of lively discussions on other forums about these types of qualifications which may give further confirmation to interested parties about their usefulness or lack of. |
Sure. But I'd say if you are going to do it, and make those sacrifices, then you deserve to enjoy the payoff at the end. That comes in the form of being offered a good contract and getting the best job possible. Do it right the first time so you don't have to do it again. If that's unlikely to happen with such-and-such a qualification offered at a certain university, then pick another one. If another institution is offering a similar qualification which includes teaching components then, personally, I'd go through them. That's all. |
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HLJHLJ
Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 1218
Location: Ecuador
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:43 am Post subject: |
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The best international schools are primarily interested in QTS (or equivalent). A course with a teaching practicum will have a slight edge over one without, but both will fall far short of a course than confers QTS.
However, if your long term plan includes an MA, then the Nottingham PGCEi is a great starting point. |
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