Job Discussion Forums

[vmaxwell]

Just wondering if anyone has had any first hand experiences with Chatteris Educational Foundation, or if anyone has suggestions on how to find out if their contracts are legitimate.

Thanks,

Vanessa

[ozman]

I don't have first hand experience myself but I have heard quite a lot about them. They are a legitimate concern. They place graduates or gap year students in schools in HK. I know a number of secondary schools are interested in getting an ELTA (English language teaching assistant) or GELTA (graduate english language teaching assistant) as they are a lot cheaper than NETS in the scheme.
The school where I teach was thinking about getting an ELTA but were advised that they would have to go on the waiting list for the following year. Seemingly there aren't enough young people applying for the Chatteris scheme. I wonder why?

I believe however that the school pays quite a lot of money to Chatteris, but Chatteris pays very little to these young people.
You can check out their website although I don't have the address at hand - but it would be easy on a search. Last time I looked I noticed they were advertising the scheme as a "way in" to the NET scheme. I and many other NETS would have reservations about this.
I also think the deal is that the gap year young students live in some kind of dormitory and get some sort of allowance. I believe they always send TWO ELTA's into a school for mutual support.
I think the GELTA's have to find their own accommodation.

If you've got the qualifications to be a NET then you would be taken advantage of by joining Chatteris. If you haven't got the qualifications to be a NET you could still get a better paid job in HK than going with Chatteris.

[Freddie_Unbelievable]

A very astute observation Ozman.

However, most going into the Chattaris scheme are pimple-faced High School graduates who have never left the farm or quit the volleyball team. At least the graduates get to find their own accomidation.

The rate is $80,000 for one ELTA for most of the year. It was near free three years ago!

Gaining experience in a culture and an educational setting will always be good for ones career.

Ozman, are you worried you may be replaced at your school?
Highly doubtful unless the government has a huge teenage ELTA force nor the need for professional English teachers.

But, then again, nothing surprises me when it comes to the HK government.

[vmaxwell]

Thanks for your responses!
I'm actually not a high school or Gap year student. I've got my BA but no teaching abroad experience. My impression from these chat forums on Hong Kong is that you should forget going there to teach unless you have all sorts of experience behind you. I guess that's why this "Chatteris" option jumped out at me because it was one of the first listings that didn't post 2 years experience in it's qualifications. I have accomadation already organized in HK so that's not an issue for me.
I have had lots of experience travelling so I definately don't need to go with an organization that will hold my hand....if this is what Chatteris is about then maybe I need to look elsewhere.
Considering, however, my lack of experience is 2800$ (can) monthly decent pay? Or since i have accomadation should I just rock up and try to find something once I'm there?
Thanks again for taking the time to respond...greatly appreciated,
Vanessa

[Freddie_Unbelievable]

[ozman]

I wouldn't be so ready to "jump at this experience" as blind Freddie suggests. If you have a BA then I assume you'd be employed as a GELTA. The money you quote is only about HK$16,000 per month. This isn't much money here and you could do a lot better.
I've been here for some time and I know a number of people working as English teachers with B.A.'s or B.Sc's and without an actual teacher certificate who are getting more than this in HK. Some of them are making as much as primary NETS.

There are other opportunities in HK without being taken advantage of with Chatteris. A number of people I know who are working in HK for private institutions or universities are quite happy with their situation and are earning a decent salary.
If you're after an overseas experience with some decent pay and you don't have the qualifications to be a NET then you'd probably do a lot better in Japan or in Taiwan.
Why not think about doing a short TESOL intensive course to add to your B.A. This would probably give you more of an edge in the employment market, although it wouldn't be recognized as an official primary or secondary school qualification. You would find this qualification very useful. A TESOL certificate can open a great many doors for you in most countries, including Japan and Taiwan, particularly with teaching adults. A lot of the secondary NETS also pick up quite a bit of extra money on the side doing private work in adult centres or exam centres - so there's a lot of work around.

And no Freddie - I'm not in the least concerned about being replaced by a Chatteris ELTA or GELTA. I've been here too long and know that as far as the EMB is concerned, qualifications are everything. It's the local teachers who are more concerned about their jobs, particularly those struggling to meet the bench marks. I've heard also that a lot of these Chatteris ELTA's and GELTA's don't stay the distance of their contract once they realize that there are better opportunities out there.

I in fact, was quite keen to get another western teacher. Now that we won't be getting one from Chatteris this year we are hoping to get a second NET. Many secondary schools employ 2nd NETS. There is more talk of the scheme expanding rather than disbanding.

I think Vanessa, one thing you should realize is that there are more English teaching jobs in HK than just the NET scheme or Chatteris. This forum isn't exclusive to just the NET scheme and I'm sure other forum posters, not on the NET scheme, would be able give you more advice about this if you are keen on coming to HK.
Ozman.

[Freddie_Unbelievable]

[Mark-O]

Actually, I thought Ozman's post was very well-balanced, and instead of offering the usual prescription of "get a PGCE or don't bother", he/she has tried to offer potential solutions - a commodity for a poster on this forum.

When I first posted here I had the usual suspects ('Bertrand' & co.) telling me that I was worth nothing and that I should perish all thoughts of a prospective career in Hong Kong. If it wouldn't have been for the help of 2-3 others on this board who actually contribute POSITIVELY to the discussions, then I might've considered a career elsewhere.

Taking on board their sound advice, I just so happen to be embarking on a PGCE course as it might give me a better chance of having options when it comes to the teaching jobs that I WANT to do in Hong Kong. I am also hoping that it will equip me with some of the necessary skills to become a competent teacher. Nevertheless, I know for a fact that there are teachers in Hong Kong that don't have this qualification and are earning comparative salaries to the EMB scheme NETs, AND are bloody good teachers!

Vanessa, there are individuals on this forum who will try to portray Hong Kong as a closed shop. Reasons for this can be numerous. Personally, I believe it strokes their (grossly inflated) egos to believe that they are teaching in a superior teaching environment amongst the profession's elite. To add to this collective without similar qualification status and experience deems you as being inept and unworthy, in their eyes. That's their problem, not yours.

You will read deluded and banal boasts of salary here, which are hugely myopic and unimpressive when you consider the money earned outside of the teaching sector in Hong Kong. Seriously rich people inhabit Hong Kong ... and they're sure as hell not teachers!

With the same token, there are people on here who will genuinely try to advise and help you (it should soon become apparent who these people are); it's just a case of sorting the 'wheat' from the 'chaff'.

One poster warned me to "take everything said on here with a bucket of salt". I'd concur with that view and one that says the only way of knowing is by doing. Go to Hong Kong and make things work for you, despite the verbal diarrhea you might read on these pages.

[AndyinHK]

Mark O, I think your right about taking advice with a bucket of salt.

I wonder what those in the NET scheme would say to a newly qualified PGCE holder... it seems those that get hired have had at least a few years of experience either teaching in their home countries or ESL overseas. I read somewhere that the whole idea of the NET scheme was to bring "experienced" teachers from overseas to not only teach, but also share their teaching experiences and pedagogy.

Freddie mentioned he had experience in the states before coming here... perhaps some others who are in the EMB NET scheme could share how much experience they had and if they were a recent hire or have been in the system for a few years. (The requirements have changed since Nov. 2003.)

[Freddie_Unbelievable]

Mark-O said:

[Ludwig]

'Mark-O', how many years experience do you have of working in Hong Kong exactly?

If you think it is a cinch to secure employment here as an English teacher then I would suggest you come and try (or pop over to Shenzhen and tell it to the hordes of FTs there who thought just that but discovered otherwise).

Of course, there would be one small problem with your coming here to seek employment. Unless you have a post lined up with full sponsorship, you will have to be in HK on a tourist visa. However, you can not seek employment on such a visa.

[Mark-O]

[Mark-O]

[ozman]

I thought this forum was an information sharing, particularly for newbies. Seems to have turned into somewhat of a sparring match.

Re having a PGCE. Well Blind Fred, I do hang out with a lot of HK university and college teachers - I'd say about half of them do have a PGCE and half of them don't.

I'm not personally aware of any teachers who work from: 6-8 AM, 9-11 AM, 2-4 PM, and 6-8 PM - plus Sat. 9-11 and 2-4. And no, I'm not making things up. What's the point? My partner has been working all this year in HK - not a NET - and not working crazy hours - but still earning a very good wage.

I know kindergarten teachers working 9 - 5 Mon to Fri who get more than what Vanessa would get on this Chatteris programme.

Mark O is right. You don't need a PGCE to come to HK. You don't need a PGCE to teach English. Perhaps Blind Fred, your life has been restricted to teaching in a school situation only. And I repeat, there is more to Hong Kong than the NET scheme - and the scheme itself does have a lot of problems. Many NETS move out of the scheme into better positions. And as Mark O says - people earning REAL money here are not teachers anyway. What we NET teachers earn is a pittance compared to other sectors and so too is our housing allowance and our wages and conditions have declined considerably over the years.

Andy asked about experience. From what I gather, the EMB has had more difficulty recruiting people this year and Andy's right about the change in requirements since Nov. 03. They didn't fill all their placements for secondary NETS last year. I know they recruited some secondary NETS without majors in English and some primary NETS who have no experience in primary schools. The requirements are not as strict as they used to be, but I'm not exactly sure what they are asking in the way of "experience." I do know that there quite a few very young teachers in the NET scheme now. From talking to a lot of NETS I know, the EMB is finding it more difficult to attract the sort of people they want - perhaps that's the reason for the change in requirements. I can't speak personally as I've been teaching for a very long time but as I've also got an M.A. I'm thinking of getting out of the NET scheme into something saner. Perhaps too some younger teachers are reluctant to come into the NET scheme, because their salary is so low. This would be the case particularly for primary teachers who were not "top of the scale" due to lack of years teaching experience. Also I believe that the primary NET salary scale cuts out long before the secondary scale. the current rates of exchange may also be putting people off.

Of course Ludwig is correct too in stating that you really have to get the sponsorship before you get here. An alternative however - if you're married - is to come with your married partner on a dependent visa. I know some people in this situation without teaching qualifications (PGCE) who have secured pretty good jobs and have changed from dependent visa to work visa. So you don't in fact ALWAYS have to have sponsorship.

And back to Mark O's point about different kinds of employment. A lot of teaching jobs advertise for NETS but they don't necessarily mean EMB enhanced NET scheme nets. These "other" kind of NETS get jobs in schools without PGCE's. This is where a TESOL certificate would be useful for someone like Vanessa with a B.A. Of course she might have the edge if her B.A. was in fact an English major, but other majors are acceptable too.

I think the point really is that people considering Hong Kong should not think of it as a closed shop - nor should they think that HK is simply the EMB NET scheme and that you therefore need a PGCE. There are many other jobs in HK if you want to teach English. Learning English isn't restricted just to school children. Personally I've found teaching adults far more satisfying. And the other point is, and I repeat, that this forum is not restricted to teachers who teach on the EMB NET scheme. There is in fact a separate group for this and it was advertised recently on this forum.
Ozman.

[Ludwig]