Job Discussion Forums

[Voyeur]

Thanks Isitts. I imagine there are a lot of people in a similar boat: veteran ESLers in their 40s who never really planned on being in overseas ESL that long, and thus never really planned for much, including having wasted a lot of their savings ove rthe years.
But in your 40s reality starts to set in. You see what looks like evidence of a a (possibly) increasing trend towards making it more difficult to work overseas as you age. You start to wonder what would happen if you got injured or sick.
As you indicate, what to do in such situations is complex. There are a lot of variables, including knowing your own limitations. For example, it's hard to imagine myself doing a lot of modern teaching jobs in Canada or the US. This is based on first hand accounts from current teachers. What's more, it's often the teaching jobs that are described as the 'best' ones that would be more unbearable for me: stable, suburban school jobs in upper-middle class areas. Those are great in many ways, but they often seem to be the jobs where teachers describe having massive amounts of marking and outside-the-classroom work, much of which they themselves describe as basically useless.
I'm not sure I can agree with you that a MA or even a teaching license offers that much value TODAY in China, but one has to plan for a future where the industry might not be as booming.

(p.s. What is this 300-word limit on posts that seems to be being implied. Is that a new rule that applies to this particular forum?)

[isitts]

[Voyeur]

One key issue about teaching in China today is the degree of danger in side work.
First, there are Z Visa jobs that will pay 24,000+ for non-certified teachers without an MA. However, there is more choice at that level for those with quals.
On the other hand, those jobs tend to take up a lot of time. If you are comfortable with the risk, a teacher without quals can often make the same total income using a combination of their main job and side-work, with a similar amount of total time invested.
But that risk is hard to quantify, and it could be increasing.
So I'm not saying that higher-level forma qualifications are totally useless right now, but I'd personally not consider them worth it if one could guarantee that the current Chinese market would stay exactly the same for the next 20 years. But of course...

[In the heat of the moment]

I would consider doing this job into my early sixties if my health allows, so I might have 15-20 years more in the industry. I too (as I'm sure have many others) have been considering a post-graduate certificate for years now. Do I get a UK PGCE teaching qualification so I can teach at primary level only, but with more money and in a greater number of countries? I'd have to do the (from what I've heard thoroughly exhausting and debilitating, plus very difficult to enroll in and expensive for expats) PGCE and probably work in the UK for a couple of years at horrible schools to get NQT status. I really don't think I have the energy or motivation for that right now.

I could do a PGCEi and hope that it's still accepted at some schools by the time I finish it. But I really don't think I have the motivation to do a degree on top of full-time work, especially without the support of other students and teachers in an academic environment.

I'm leaning towards doing an MATESOL but in an overseas university that's affiliated to one in the UK. The fee is about £10k for the year, and living expenses should be lower in SE Asia compared to the UK. Plus I'd rather not stay in the UK for any significant time because of tax purposes, and I'm not particularly happy when I'm back anyway. The improvement to my CV may lead to improvements in employability which some deem to be unworthy, but a year out of teaching will be timely plus getting a post-grad is pretty cool IMO.

To anyone worried about the future in TEFL I say one word - Africa.

[Voyeur]

I was considering getting my MA TESOL at the Ningbo campus of the University of Nottingham.
You're right that it is relatively cheap and fast. The Diploma is the same as you get from the UK Campus--no indications of a connection to China. In addition, if you do the right paperwork, you can legally teach on the side up to a certain number of hours per week. The program didn't seem particularly difficult with something like 8 class hours a week or something.
It's way easier and cheaper than getting a teaching license.
It's just that I'm not really sure I see that much upside.

[Mixal]

Voyeur,

how much is the MA at UNNC?

[Voyeur]

Last time I checked it was like 80,000 RMB.

But one would have to confirm that.

[isitts]

[Unheard Utterance]

Increased opportunities after the expense of doing an MA TESOL? How so? Where? Doesn't this just allow one to teach in a university? How much do they pay in China?

I don't really rate the MA TESOL. Knowing a bit of theory won't make you a better teacher IMO and it doesn't seem to increase your employability much. Also, from the three people I know who have one, it makes one a bit of a know-it-all bore. They keep trying to pee over my Delta which is slightly annoying. At least my teaching has been put through the ringer; theirs has not.

If you're over 40, I think it's a massive financial risk to go for broke and pull the trigger on expensive further quals. The pay off may not be worth it.

[Relevant]

These are not the only options when it comes to training as a certified K-12 teacher.

If the thought of being out a great deal of money while taking a year off to train is not attractive, the UK has some other options for teachers that need to earn money while they are training.

Look into schoolsdirect and other SCITT (https://www.ucas.com/teaching-option/school-centred-initial-teacher-training-scitt) programmes that will pay you while you train, and are based in schools. You will still get your PGCE at the end, but will not be totally broke (though the pay may no be high while doing it!)

I blew all my savings when i was just coming towards my 30s by going back to the UK and retraining to teach secondary, but even then the government helped me out by giving me a bursary towards my training costs.

These have gone up since I was there (https://getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/funding-my-teacher-training/bursaries-and-scholarships-for-teacher-training). You would need to be doing a self funded one year PGCE with a university to qualify, though.

Hope this give some food for thought!

[Greg 09]

I was attracted to this thread because I just aged out at my former Uni and I'm considering more education to increase my marketability.

I turned 60 last year and got bumped due to the new FEB age policy. I did get job offers from Unis in two other provinces. Seems there are waivers available if the province is less developed. I'm currently in Hebei and have been told that up to 65 is possible.

I've read all the posts here and my suggestion to anyone would be to get your qualifications upgraded as soon as possible. Its too easy to wait until next year, then the next, and find yourself at my age with only a BA and no quals. I'm 61 and in great health and have no intention of ever retiring, but my options are limited. I'm thinking about an online MA so I can keep working while I study. Even if the payoff is breakeven at least I can keep working and possibly shift to a management gig somewhere.

My point is: don't wait until you're 60 like I did. I pissed away 9 years in China thinking it would last forever. Change comes fast and when you least expect it.

[Kalkstein]

[Greg 09]

I'm 61 and I'm working in a Hebei Uni. My FAO and the guy at the PSB both told me I can stay "a few years, maybe until 65". Assuming I pass the Med check of course, which is no problem unless something comes up. They said that its because the county is "undeveloped" and thus necessary to bend the rules. But its a city of 1 million and is quite modern. Go figure.

I probably wasn't too clear about getting the MA or other. My advice was to get qualifications not just concerning China but for your career in general.

After China I'll certainly find another country, and hope that an MA will bring more options. Its only 18 months and I can pay for it out of pocket. I think it'll be worth it, at least professionally, maybe even financially.

[max71081]

[nomad soul]