Job Discussion Forums

[Genghis K]

Mostly, for me, it is a trade off. Sometimes I will have an assistant and control of my class is very good, but the students feel very tentative to speak and the teacher will often yell at them if they are wrong, encourage only the "smart" ones to contribute, or argue with me in front of the class over grammar points or information, such as insisting that modern is pronounced "mordren". Or I don't have an assistant and I spend more energy controlling the class than teaching. Only rarely have I found a good teaching partner. I was wondering how the rest of you feel.

[kev7161]

I had a class this year that was a bad class and I mean REALLY BAD! They would often argue with each other, some would skip class, talk during lessons, not do homework, sleep, etc. etc. Now, don't get me wrong, I have bad students in pretty much all of my classes, but this WHOLE class was a nightmare (except for two girls who really wanted to learn. I tried to get them transferred to another class, but the school wouldn't hear of it. They are not returning in the fall.). I walked out on their class on more than one occasion.

Finally, in March, I had enough. I told their head teacher that I would not return to their class unless I had someone there of authority to monitor them. He (the head teacher) said he would rearrange his schedule and sit in on the class every time . . . and he did! (except for one time when he had to monitor Senior 3 testing) What a 100% turn around in behavior for this class! They were quiet, (seemingly) attentive, did their work, spoke their best English when called upon, no fuss, no muss.

As much as I appreciate their teacher being there for me, I have to say . . . what the f*ch? Why did it take this long for me to get help? What is the magic "cure" this Chinese teacher had? I'm a pretty stern teacher if I have to be, why was this particular class so EXTRA bad with me? (and, by the way, other teachers had complaints about them as well) Whatever, at least I had a peaceful two months with the little "darlings."

[anthyp]

Ah, kev, as you know the students don't "fear" us as they do their Chinese teachers. What can we really do to them when they're acting up? Walk out on them?

I wonder what their Chinese teachers can do, that make the students fear them so.

Anyway, I was supposed to have teaching assistants all year, but they stopped showing up after the second week or so. I don't really care, as I didn't need them. I had a few troublesome classes, but most of them settled down after time and we eventually got all our work done.

But I never had really outrageous class sizes, where I assume the real difficulty lies in keeping these kids under control.

[Dalian Veteran]

In my experience, there is quite a mixture.

Some Chinese T.A.'s are world-class teachers that can teach better than most of the foreigners. These types of T.A.'s generally have a better idea of how to assess the students' progress, and they are firm when dealing with the trouble-makers in the classroom. Plus, they devote themselves to the students' education even when given little praise from management.

Yet some Chinese T.A.'s are downright lazy and even snooze in class. They're just in it for an easy job, or maybe they are among the recent college grads who can't find the ideal decent job they're looking for, such as in a foreign company, so they work as a T.A. while waiting for their dream job to come around.

And some Chinese T.A.'s shouldn't have even been given the job in the first place, as their language level is only at intermediate or even lower. Even when speaking simple English, you often have to repeat yourself, or even take a shortcut and speak Chinese, when trying to coordinate lessons in the teachers lounge. And in the classroom, they often mistranslate or simply don't translate, even when translation is needed (although I realize ESL classes aren't United Nations conventions, but still, some T.A.s are just not very responsive or attentive when translation is needed).

And there are other T.A.'s who are there for a myriad of reasons, such as to practice their English and hang out with foreigners (which isn't a bad thing, as long as they aren't slacking in the classroom), to earn money while waiting for their visa to go abroad (once again, not a bad thing as long as they don't loaf in the classroom), and finally, there are some who want a foreign boyfriend who'll take them abroad & get them a green card (I've known of a few such cases, but they are very much a minority).

And then there are some T.A.'s that are very devoted to education, but they are too traditional in their methods, plus their listening comprehension is a bit lacking. Some even use draconian punishment methods when dealing with trouble-makers. These types are actually quite common.

In my years of teaching ESL in Dalian, that's how I assess the T.A.'s. They are quite a diverse mixture.

[Ace]

What I actually mean is, does anyone have any success with them? I had a sleeper (a creep anyway,) in a 'winter camp' class, and I had them during a short kindergarten or junior school stint...now I have a feeling I've been assigned one, (she has just graduated...so I wouldn't expect she'd be a great authority figure) -

Does anyone want to share any useful experiences with assistant teachers?

(or co-teachers...I'm supposed to have had a co-teacher for the last 18 months but never saw or spoke to any in my classroom or out, as far as I know...)

How have they been useful?
How would you recommend making use of them?

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

I don't have a teaching assistant as per say, but sometimes the boss' wife sits in class to get "free lessons". I should point out that she is as helpful as a wet paper bag because she speaks next to no English.

My classes are the worst when she is in class because she's nattering to them in Chinese, hitting them with her notebook, etc.

I don't mind if she is there or not, I just wish she would shut the hell up.

I did complain to my boss, and she has actually appeared in my classes far less reccently. When she does visit, she's now as quiet as a mouse.

Squeeky wheel gets the oil I suppose.

[Genghis K]

Yeah, I forgot about the ones with minimal English skills. They are usually the ones that argue with me the most.
Chinese teacher: "I teach English more than 20 years."
Me: "I have been speaking English for more than 20 years."

I also have had the distraction type teachers. I had one teacher that would sit next to the same girl every class and chat the whole time I was teaching, like they were best friends at a dinner party. This class had the lowest English level. Anyway, I usually got on pretty well, but sometimes I needed one word translated that I was having trouble getting across. I would have to say this teacher's name three times to get her to help. Sometimes the students would be in a similar situation. They would be talking to me and grasping for a word they didn't know so they would look to their teacher for help, often saying something to get her attention, but to no avail. I eventually gave up and just picked the student in the class with the best ability. I pulled him to the side and very patiently explained what I wanted to say and would have him translate it for the class.

The need for teacher assistants will vary by the level you teach. I found it pretty difficult to teach junior 1 or lower without an assistant. I could rarely vary from the repeat, repeat, repeat method and found teaching anything but the simplest English games quite difficult. On the senior level I have less of a need for assistants, but sometimes I have student behavior problems. In the school I am in now, where I currently teach senior students, I have never met any of the teachers. Zero communication. I have found this to be among the worst teaching environments that I have encountered in China. We have been done with the book for awhile so I am at my liberty to what I want to teach (not that they ever bring their books anyway). Not that it matters much as the students seldom listen. I have known other FTs that have been at this school and they refuse to go back. This is the school where it is common to see students lighting fires or throwing things at teachers. One FT pulled a runner just to get out of this school. I very plainly set simple rules when I went into this school, but after weeks of fighting against the students, class after class I wore out. I have told my boss of this issue (as have the others before me) and he always nods his head and says he will talk with the school, but nothing ever changes.

[kev7161]

Okay, in the summer of 2002 I had two different TAs (one for each class) who were to help me in communicating with the students, making copies, organizing things, etc. Both were college students preparing to become teachers as well.

Both were intelligent, friendly, had good English, and were highly cooperative with me. As this was my first foray into teaching in China, I really appreciated them being around. After the first week or so they only would come into my class occasionally. During the last week- week and a half one of them came in every day and sat in the back of my classroom. Later I found out that she thought my teaching procedures were "amazing" and she enjoyed my lessons as much as my students did!

So, these days I don't get a TA and rarely any help/feedback from Chinese teachers. Most of my classes I can handle (but that one . . . see earlier post), so it hasn't been truly necessary. But every once in a while I think . . . wouldn't it be nice to have one?

[traveller]

Because I am a poor disciplinarian, I need Chinese Teaching Assistants. Big-time. When they are there, my calsses are in a fairly controlled, productive state of semi-chaos: kids are opening up, but aren't shouting down each other.

When the TA's are absent, WOW! From 'playful' shoving and kicking, to endless endless talking - some of the quieter kids are covering their ears! After shouting in the air for a few minutes, I get some control - which is lost after a minute of teaching. The kids KNOW a big softie when they see one!

I could go into a long, long discussion about the last day of school, but it's just too tiring to even think about. Even the smart & quiet class went nuts when there is no TA!

As for the TA's themselves... they have all been cool. I started out with a big disipilinarian, but I encouraged the boss to give her a different class - she had a real hard time with morning classes, and was either fighting the kids or was silent and inactive. She also had problems withoneof the pernament class teachers - bad vibe time! She handled the afternoon classes well, and has moved on to bigger pay - and rightfully so!

Next up, a good, smart girl. She knew my falults as a teacher, and worked with me for the success of the class. But the boss didn't like her for some reason, and she was removed as an assistant. (But she stayed with the school, and is now tapped to lead a new branch in a minor town.)

Then I got a smart assistant - but a bit too subversive and contemptuous. She crossed the line when she joined the kids in laughing at me (owww owww, my poor ego!) and I asked the boss to get her out. Instead, he just talked with her, and she did a good job of respecting me - in public, at least. (Jobs aren't too easy to find here in Dongbei!)

In my last month, I got another smart girl - a Beijinger, well spoken and good at handling the class. But she and I had communication problems - not least because she didn't have a cell phone, and I couldn't contact here before or after class.

One of the many benefits of my new job is that there's a lot of ADULT students there: and it's easier to get my career in their direction. My style is great with adults (they find me cute and/or entertaining , for some odd reason) but the kids can't handle my style without jumping up and down a bit too much. Sigh....

[Seth]

i'm a complete hard-arse when i need to be in class rooms. i grab kids by the arm and drag/throw them out and carry and big stick and slap their desk when the noise level gets too high. plus i can shout in chinese.

but it doesn't help too much. they simply aren't that afraid of foreigners. usually if you yell they just laugh.

if i were to teach at a primary/middle school again, i wouldn't consider one that didn't have co-teachers.

usually, though, co-teachers don't get paid for sitting in on your classes, which is why they don't show up half the time, if at all.

[ilunga]

I had all these problems too in junior/senior middle school. Some of the junior 1/2 classes were a complete waste of time. Very rarely did I have an assistant to help me out. The kids would run riot, constantly leaving their seats, throwing things etc
Luckily I scored a free transfer to the primary department. The kids over there are much, much better. I've got grade 3 kids that speak better English than most of the middle school kids. I've also got a really good assistant who comes with me to every class (when her schedule permits). I probably wouldn't have signed on for another year if it wasn't for her and the other Chinese English teachers in the primary dept who are a joy to work with

[Roger]

I am a little perplexed as to why we should have T.A.s... It would mean that we cannot handle Chinese English students, in which case our competence would be compromised. For translation purposes? Even worse - then I would have to ask: why don't Chinese bilingual teachers do our job?
Yes, I have had assistants - but only in kindergarten classes, and on occasion in a primary school class. The latter not because for "translation" services, but to maintain order and discipline.
This is not easy to maintain because of the low esteem generally reserved for foreign teachers; many think we are not highly educated, and in a Chinese student's eyes, a teacher must know mountains of knowledge and data to enjoyh a modicum of respect.
What's more, they are permanently in touch with their Chinese teachers, so a different, more intimate rapport develops. CHinese teachers have far more clout over their students than we do. I envy them for that, though I often notice unruly elements in their classes too.
In kindergartens, I needed an assistant for the exact same reason - a person who commanded respect, and that would normally be their head teacher. Many of them spoke not one word of English, but I got along well with all of them. It helps if you can communicate to her your worries in Chinese, but the more observant ones notice inappropriate student behaviour on their own.
If I need to say something in Chinese, I would much rather labour over the issue on my own than to depend on a Chinese English teacher with their disfunctional English and lack of comprehension.

[naturegirl321]

They help out, but yell at the kids a lot, but then again, I have a bad class who never listens to anything you say and it's all because of a few bad kids.

[oprah]

My sense is that the kids can be bad, sleep or not pay attention to us as we do not give them exams so they behave better when they will be marked in their other classes. I walk around the class room during my class to make sure they are not reading or doing something other than the subject at hand. If the students interrupt my class or do not pay attention I make them stand up.
Chinese Teachers can only come to my class if they ask me and I tell them they are not to speak unless asked to. I am aware that some students use the assistant as an interpreter, I do not allow this. I had a teaching assistant in primary school, it was her first job out of college and she was great, we made a great team together, she just sensed when she was required . She is now an interpreter in a trading company.

[charmed]

My TA experience...

They are usually the Head Teachers in each of my classes.

Young Ones - great sense of when they are needed, more open to accept original materials to teach in class, show up more (i do need them to keep peace as i have become hoarse at one time just shouting 'Pls keep quiet!'), great sense of humor!

Young ONCE - sit in class, do nothing, bookish crones " you had better follow the text on the book, shenma, shenma", yeah, they come in - if they are not busy going to the hospital or doing something else, interpret never... thank God for the Electronic Dictionaries that my students carry all the time... cuts the interpretation in half!

That's all folks!