Job Discussion Forums

Mart · Joined: 11 Dec 2003 Posts: 9 Location: Quebec, Canada

Dear Folks, just read a job advert asking for teachers in Kelkit and Istanbul, Turkey. It's on the job site here on Dave's ESL Cafe.
Just wondering if anyone has worked for this organization in either of these places.
I welcome any and all suggestions/information.
Thanks, Mart

[email protected]

boxcarwilly · Joined: 23 Jan 2003 Posts: 85

These 2 schools were formally International House affiliates. They were quazi owned by 2 all-time losers named Zeynep and Bora, AKA Butch and Sundance. She is definitely butch and he can dance around any important employee issue that he has screwed up. If you go to work for these people; well you have been warned. They do no keep their promises. I don't know whether the conversion was voluntary or if Ih pulled their support for lack of professional standards. EF has a reputation around the world and that reputation is easy to research. Their DOS's are soft noodles with no spine. The better places to work are universities in Istanbul. Lower teaching hours, reasonable pay and a wealth of private teaching opportunities that can get you a very decent living standard. Sounds to me like Butch and Sundance are working their way down the ladder rather than up. Their DOS's and teachers must have loved the the effect this will have on their resumes; instead of Ih, they can now list EF.

Byzantine · Joined: 19 Sep 2003 Posts: 55 Location: Southwest

Interesting...boxcarwilly and I had almost opposite experiences working for Bora and Zeynep. I worked for them for two years in Suadiye. I loved it. I always got paid on time, paid well, had great DOSes, etc. During my time there, I didn't see that their affiliation with IH benefitted them. IH sent a guy out to run some workshops for us once - that was about it. If the EF franchise costs are lower, I'd say Bora and Zeynep made a sound business decision.

vre · Joined: 17 Mar 2004 Posts: 371

I met the people in charge of the Suaddiye branch and I have to say they were so friendly, professional and the environment was so welcoming and would be for both new teachers and students. There are not that many great English Language schools in Istanbul. This is probably one of the better ones. One of our regular posters is going there, if i'm not mistaken.

yaramaz · Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 2:16 pm Post subject:

I'm going there in October, yes, and I've met everybody there and have two good friends currently employed there. Everybody seems pretty happy. From what I understand, they switched because IH fees were significantly higher than EF's. Nothing has changed except a shorter contract in the first year and shorter holidays. Which sucks, but hey, it's a stepping stone if all else fails. I looked around and really, they seemed the sanest. I refuse to go back to the k-12s and I'm not ready for the universities yet so....

As it has been said on the Asia forums, an EF school is as good or as bad as its owners and managers. We shall see. I think if they had a good rep as IH and are basically the same people as EF, then it should be ok.

tammy · Joined: 07 Jan 2004 Posts: 45

I worked for EF last year and had a fairly good experience with them. I always had good teaching hours, they paid on time and gave me time off when I asked for it. I left nearly a year ago, though, and most of the people who remained there after me have either been fired without reason or quit. Apparently the management has changed at many of the branches and working there now is not the same kind of experience as when I was there before..

Nexus · Joined: 08 Mar 2004 Posts: 189 Location: Moscow

Byzantine · Joined: 19 Sep 2003 Posts: 55 Location: Southwest

Nexus, I am talking about the IH branches in Istanbul - Etiler and Suadiye - that are reportedly about to switch from IH to EF.

Yaramaz certainly has more current info, but I have no qualms about saying good things about the Bora and Zeynep owned schools, regardless of the name they end up with. Bora, Zeynep, and staff are great. Of course there are times that their interests are not exactly the same as those of the teachers, but Bora and Zeynep do realize that, in the end, the interests fall fairly close to one another.

yaramaz · Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 11:54 pm Post subject:

As far as I know, the management of IH Suadiye is still the same as it was 2 or 3 years ago-- Benet Vincent--- and I've met him several times and he seems quite sane. My friends there like him. None of the staff have been fired or quit for petty reasons (I know one got a job at a Uni, but he recommended IH to me)

As for Etiler, I met the management there as well and they also seemed quite sane. That branch was only re-acquired recently, and used to be owned by someone else who apparently ran it into the ground (though I can't back it up, only heresay).

I'm a bit confused about the 'at many of their branches' quote because until this year they only had one branch, Suadiye, and it has/had a greatrep. Are you sure you arent thinking of English Time? They have heaps of branches around the city. Also, it isn't even EF yet, still IH till Autumn so Tammy couldn't have worked for EF. I am confused. Can you explain, please, Tammy-- since I'm going there, I'd like to know if there is something I should know...

tammy · Joined: 07 Jan 2004 Posts: 45

Oops! Sorry, my mistake. I worked at English TIME.. not English FIRST...

Embarassed

Ahem... I'll just go and sit in the corner then, shall I?

Mart · Joined: 11 Dec 2003 Posts: 9 Location: Quebec, Canada

July 8th

Dear Folks, sorry for the slow reply I'm a little over my head in work at the moment.
Thanks so much for all of your input, it's helping me narrow things down.
Just want to clarify something; is it Bora and Zeynep who are now runinng the new branches of "English First " in Turkey or only certain cities in Turkey?
Any ideas of how Turkish schools compare with Asian; particularly Taiwan or Japan??
Have a good one and hope that you are all having some fun!!!

Mart

jbulterman · Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Posts: 4

I read with some humor the differences between Boxcar and Byz's replies.
I worked with Ih Suadiye and Etiler and can tell you honestly that both Chris and Her Largeness are both overstating things. Chris would have you believe that Bora and Zeynep are devils and Largeness would have you believe that they are saints. Both are wrong.
For the record, Ih is better than most and not as good as some at keeping their promises.
The end of the contract was not handled well by Ih for either Nick or me and Ben might tell you this privately if he is willing to be honest.
If you have the skills, Istanbul is a great town to make money. After the breakup with Ih, I got a job with a private university and continued to work a side contract with Ih. These along with my private business clients netted me an average of $3,000 USD per month (but I worked for it) and allowed me to save a good chunk of change and live well. For in-the-know school owners, having Ih on the CV can be a plus but as you will find out, many school owners are just interested in making money and don't know that much about the difference between good and not-so-good teachers.
Most of my days at Ih were good ones and set me up nicely for my current fabulous opportunity. I followed my intuitition and it has paid off.

Byzantine · Joined: 19 Sep 2003 Posts: 55 Location: Southwest

JBulterman, who are Chris and Her Largeness?

I don't think I deified Bora and Zeynep, nor did I try to make them out to be saints. Their interests and those of the teachers are not always the same, it's true.

JBulterman may well have encountered a problem that was not handled well, but in my time there, I'd say that the majority of 'bad endings' had more to do with difficult teachers. Not all, though.