Job Discussion Forums

[Ivana]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the forum so my apologies if a similar topic has already been covered. I bought a plane ticket to Japan for Sept, intending to go over on a working holiday visa. Since then, I've been contacted by a school I was interested in and have an interview coming up, but if I got the job I wouldn't start till at least a few months from now. Since I already have the plane ticket and can't change it, my plan right now is to go over on working holiday either way and work until the job starts (if I get it), and change my visa status when I get there. Does this sound feasible? From what I've read, it sounds pretty easy to switch your visa status in Japan if you've got an employer to sponsor you, but I'm not 100% sure. Also, is it easy to find only short term (3-5 months) work if you're on WHV? Or do most jobs still prefer a longer committment?

Thanks so much for any advice anyone has!!!!

[Glenski]

Why switch? Your WHV allows FT or PT work.

Switching itself shouldn't be hard, but why burn a perfectly good WHV after a few months? It is only issued once in your life.

Besides, nobody will hire you for only 3-5 months except Westgate Corporation, and they don't take WHVs.

[BenJ]

why not switch? you get taxed 20% on a WHV and some companies won't hire you with one. Your work visa is yours and a WHV is really just a way to get into Japan - not that valuable once you're here.

[ryuro]

Hey,

Glenski, it's rare I feel the need to disagree or correct you (you're usually spot on), but legally you can't work FT on a WHV- unless something changed with immigration since last week 'cause I was just in our regional immigration office with one of our semi new hires apologizing profusely because they hadn't changed their WHV over to a standard work visa when they started working for us as a FT teacher.

You can work 2 or more PT jobs to bring yourself up to a FT income, although I don't think 'in theory' immigration would agree with that, but know tons of people who do it in practice.

But working FT on a WHV is a big "no-no" for immigration and can get the company for which they're working into a lot of hot water (trust me). Plus as another poster mentioned the teacher would get whacked with 20% income tax rather than the 5%ish for a regular work visa.

To address the original posters queries- yes, it is VERY easy to change a WHV to a work visa, provided you've got a legitimate sponsor and a university/college degree.

Do any places offer short-term employment?
NO (only Westgate as was mentioned). Generally you need to commit to a year.

The vast majority of our new hires come over here in your situtation- on a WHV, then chagning to a standard work visa- very common practice, so good luck!

Cheers,
ryuro

[Glenski]

[ryuro]

Howdy again,

Glenski, as usual your research is very thorough and detailed, however as with all buracracies (and I think this has been stated time and again on this board), what is in writing and what is put into practice are often two entirely different things open to multiple interpretations.

What I am posting is from 8 years personal experience dealing with three different immigration centers (incluing central immigration in Tokyo), my last encounter was two weeks ago....

And I am quoting DIRECTLY from the English document (Japan Association for Working Holiday Makes J.A.W.H.M.) handed to me at the immigraton office and the section repeatedly pointed to by the immigration officer:

"Please note that is is against the agreement of the Workring Holiday Scheme if you come to Japan for the sole purpose of work or making money."

And I realize that the WHV website says, " The working holiday makers are allowed to engage themselves in part-time or FULL-TIME work to supplement their funds to travel and stay in partner countries."

However, in my personal experience, how immigration has interpreted this FT clause when explaining it to me is something like this....

FT employment would be permitted so long as such employment were of a temporary nature, ie. a month or so and DEFINITELY NOT PERMITTED under a long-term (i.e. year) contractual basis (otherwise there wouldn't be much reason to have work visas for Commonwealthers of a particular age). You will find this written no where, but in EVERY instance when I've inquired about this status, immigration has given me that type of interpretation.

In EVERY instance, again my personal experience, with every immigration officer and office I've ever dealt, they have interpreted this and other similiar documentation to mean that FT work longer than a very short duration is legally NOT PERMITTED under the working holiday scheme.

In EVERY instance they have said that the appropriate course of action if a FT position has been obtained under a WHV is that the WHV MUST be changed as soon as possible to a standard work visa (whatever the status) with an appropriate employer sponsor.

Now what consititutes "as soons as possible" is always open to debate, but in the last case I was just dealing with, the company waited about three months (unknown to me) after employing the teacher fulltime on a WHV before getting around to giving the teacher the paperwork to change over to a standard work visa (Specialist in Humanities/Int'l Services). When the candidate presented their application materials for this change of status to the regional immigration bureau, a small crisis ensued. Immigration proceded to berate the teacher for not tending to this immediately after they signed their contract. Immigration then called the sponsoring company and read them the riot act and wanted to know if the company had been withholding the appropriate taxes during those months as a WHV. Finally I was dispatched along with my Japanese counterpart to the immigration office to "apologize and explain" why this lapse had occured. This being Japan, all they wanted was some deep bowing and a written apology/explanation and all was forgiven. But it wasn't the first time I've had to deal with such an incident (thankfully it will be my last as I am leaving Japan after eight years and such spin-doctoring will fall to my successor- but that's completely off the subject).

So I'm sorry Glenski, but I have to stand by what I posted and maintain that depsite your thoroughness and research, what you said is generally considered wrong by the immigration offices and officers in Japan. FT employment, regardless of whatever documentation there may be, is generally interperted by immigration officials (those that I've dealt with) as NOT PERMITED ON A WHV unless of an extrmely short duration. And as anyone knows, it's quite rare to find a teaching gigg of such a short duration, so immigration gets a little tweaked when people sign a year contract on a WHV and don't bother to change the status.

And while multiple part-time jobs are also technically not permited under WHV, I've known heaps of people over the years who've gone this route. Basically so long as immigration doesn't know and the employers are cool with it (or don't know if they aren't cool with it), it's a fairly commom practice. But again, immigration interprets this, from those that I've personally talked to, as a violation of the 'spirit of the WHV scheme' and would defeinitely frown upon it and not permit it if they knew about it.

Plus employers with teachers working on a WHV are supposed to be deducting the 20% income tax, but as I think someone mentioned in the documentation in your post, many Japanese employers are completely clueless about this and it only becomes an issue if immigration and/or the tax offices find out.

In my experience the only people I've known who got 'busted' were those who didn't follow the golden rule when it comes to bureaucracies (particularly in Japan) "infomation should be given on a need to know basis only"! If they don't need to know, don't say anything!

Some of the consequences that occured when these individulas were found out, was the company being hit with a stiff fine and potential loss of the right to sponsor candidates in the future; and the company and teacher being hit with an additional tax bill. However, usually with some fancy talk and a lot of apologizing, the powers that be will forgive so long as everything is put in order ASAP and there are no other WHVer's working for the same company under FT conditions. Obviously the whole process can be quite upsetting to not only to the teacher but particularly to the Japanese employer, because now they get the impression that employing a foreigner can be frought with all kinds of problems. So whenever I have someone on a WHV signing for a FT position, I always insist (to both the teacher and empoyer) that they get it changed to a regular visa ASAP or suffer the consequences- as was the case just a couple weeks ago.

If anyone has had different PERSONAL experiences with immigration and how they've interpreted this, I'd love to hear about it and the immigration bureau where this took place.

Whew! After all that, I'll go back to the original poster's queries and say again that getting a WHV is still the easiest way to get over here for a Commonwealther and is, in fact, very simple to change to a working visa.

Hope that helps a bit. Remember- don't trust everything ya read (especially with bureaucracies)!

Cheers,
ryuro

[Glenski]

ryuro,
Despite our disagreement here, I'm glad it's being done so professionally. Thanks.

[Ivana]

Thanks so much for all this info. Still not 100% sure on what I'll do, but I'm relieved to know the switching-visa option is there. Thanks!

[barkley_chris]

Hi, I am new to this forum as well, and would like to know if you are required to leave Japan when you switch from a holiday work visa to a work visa. I am planning on going to Japan in August or September. Am currently interviewing with companies, but am also considering the holiday work visa because I would like to join my girlfriend in Kagoshima, and there seem to be so few jobs in Kyushu available online, and I figure the best way to go to that destination is through the Holiday work visa. Anyway any help would be appreciated.

[ryuro]

Do you have to leave the country to change your visa stauts????

NO. WHV's are easy to change and no need to leave the country.

You used to, but a couple years ago immigration changed that requirement.

HOWEVER, if you're on another type of visa (i.e. tourist) it gets a bit grey (although it shouldn't be). A few months back we were processing the paperwork to get an American's tourist visa changed to a standard work visa. When my Japanese coutnerpart called regional immigration to find out the procedure, he was told that the candidate would have to leave the country to get this change processed. I told my Japanese co-worker that that had changed and there was no reason the teacher should have to leave. This being Japan though, once a bureaucrat had spoken nothing I was going to say would change that reality. So I picked-up the phone and dialed central immigration in Tokyo- when we got through I handed the receiver to my Japanese co-worker and the look on his face was priceless when he was told by another burearcrat a completely different process. Sometimes it's good to educate our hosts on the concept of 'no hard and fast rules'.

This little incident of conflicting information resulted in a full blown meeting- it was hilarious! What whould they do?!?!?! Does not compute does not compute!?!?!? I simply sent the teacher into the central Tokyo office, they processed his change of status and was back before my Japanese co-workers could come-up with a resolution to this little paradox. It might be possible that some of the regional office aren't allowed to process certain status changes- don't know, couldn't get a straight answer about this one????

Anyway, my point is, immigration offices can interpret things pretty much anyway they see fit. The bigger and more central the office (like Tokyo) the more conistent they seem (SEEM) to be.

But I've never had an issue changing a WHV to a standard visa.

Oh, Gleski

No worries about disagreeing- happens- and it is unfortunate that people can't be professional and sometimes take it as an attack rather than what it is- just a disagreement. Also to address a couple points you raised..

Actually I didn't mean to imply YOU specifically with my little "don't believe everything you read"- As often happens on forums such as this, the line between response and rhetorical gets blurred- that was just my little way of signing-off I guess.

As to your penalties questions... honestly I've no idea because in the handful of cases I've delt with where immigration has gotten their knickers twisted over something, usually a round of personal apologies and putting an explanation/apology in writing with the approprite hankos sets things right again.

As with most things in this country- it's not so much the 'crime' itself that sets-off the bureaucrats, it's the violation of protocol and rules that really makes them edgy. So long as you perform the correct ritualistc functions required in these situations, they usually let it all slide.

So I don't really know what would happen and I'm betting no official could give you a hard and fast rule either.

And who knows about the time limit thing??? What I've always been told is that the minute someone signs a FT contract, they should IMMEDIATELY start the process to change the status. Peferably they should submit the paperwork enough before the term of the contract begins so they will be "legal" from the moment they start work. In fact, anytime you change an employer, regardless of how much time you have left on your visa, you're supposed to file a change of status with immigration- but I've NEVER known anyone to do this in either of these cases.

I guess that means there's really no grace period except for however long it takes to get the documents into an immigration office. Basically the longer you wait, the more apologizing, explaining and bowing you'll wind up doing.

As always hope some of this has been helpful.

Cheers,
ryuro

[Glenski]

[Stosskraft]

Hello,

I have another visa question and my search has caused me more confusion ( I know, its not hard) about this topic. I am in a similar situation as the original poster, yet I am currently in teaching in China. I am planning on coming to Japan in January 2005 on a WHV, and search for a teaching Job at an "Eikaiwa".

Now my question is this, once I finish my 1 year on teaching on the WHV I will have 2 years of teaching experience. If I return to China or another country for another year, can I go back to Japan and apply for a Working Visa?
I do not have a degree, but at this point I will have 3 years of related teaching experience. Now I understand (I hope) that the WHV can only be issued once, will this effect the possibility of getting a Working visa? and if so do you need to be sponsored by a school at this point?

Thank you

[Glenski]

You probably cannot get a work visa with only 2 years of work experience. Ministry of Foreign Affairs requires at least 3.

You aren't very clear. First you write...

[ryuro]

Stosscraft...

So long as you meet the minimum criteria you can apply and having a previous visa generally wouldn't effect the application unless immigration turned-up something unsavory about you during your previous stint in Japan . Of coures you would need to disclose any previous visas you held in Japan and their duration.

Be warned though that this "3 years experience" clause is, as with all visa applications, strictly evalutated on a case-by-case basis. Meaning someone with no degree but 5 solid years experience is going to have an easier time getting approved than someone who JUST completed 3 years expereince when they arrived here in Japan. I don't want to sound too negative, because people do get approved on having experience over the degree, but it definitely isn't garanteed.

Glenski...

I hate using terms such as "an absolute given", 'cause when I do, I know it'll come back and bite me in the arse. However, I will say that since central TOKYO immigration relaxed it's rules about changing of status and no longer requires candidates to make the quick Tokyo-Seoul-Tokyo hop to change a tourist visa to a regular working visa, EVERYONE I've known who came here on a tourist visa (about a half dozen since the change) did not have to leave the country. And if you talk to the immgration people in Tokyo they'll say it's not necessary to leave the country anymore.

As far as the government having (or not having) set rules for the regional branches- don't know. I tried to get a clear answer on this recently and the best I got was that Tokyo immigration, being the main office, apparently has greater authority and powers than perhaps some of the regional offices. Again, couldn't get any specifics, but I'd say if someone has problems with a regional office- call Tokyo and if it's feasable go there for your immigration needs.

That's about the best I can do on that topic.

Cheers,
ryuro

[Stosskraft]

Hello,

Sorry for not being clear.

If I start teaching in January 2005, I will have already have had 1 year of experience in China. Then using a WHV, gaining 1 more year in Japan. At this point I am planning on returning to China (Jan 2006) for 1 more year.
Now I will have the required 3 years minimum including a year of experience teaching in Japan.

Now ryuro mentioned that each application is reviewed on a case-by-case basis. Can anyone expand on this? What do they look at when reviewing your application ? What type of documents do they require? Will I need to keep my contracts from schools that I have worked at here in China as proof of employment?

Thanks for the help,