Job Discussion Forums

[MixtecaMike]

As another happy semester comes to a close I see that out of about 75 students on my class lists only 30 managed the 60% minimum attendence to do their exam, and of that 30 only 21 actually turned up, and of those 21 three are actually teachers...

So, as well as talking pay and living conditions in the Mexican republic, maybe for wannabe teachers in Mexico we could prepare them a little for the type of students they could be seeing.

Teaching English in an institution where it is only one more subject, not the rason d'etre for being there, be prepared for MAJOR apathy.

EDIT: Looks like my 4th option, The judge will understand when I kill the little... got chopped. Those who want to vote this one have to upgrade their students to Mediocre.

[moonraven]

I am just getting ready to turn in my final grades for the semester, too. I had these students only since the end of April, and despite the number of semesters they had taken of English, most were essentially starting from a base of zero. One student said that in his case, he was starting from below zero....These students have the poorest overall academic infrastructure of any that I have had at any level--and these are university level. The students who are not making it in their other subjects didn't pass with me, either. The rest of them covered a semester and a half in two months, and passed the course. They made an evaluation of themselves and the course on an individual basis--what was most difficult for them, in what aspect they made the most progress, what they liked and disliked about the course. They were very pleased to write those evaluations in English, and that they were coherent, with very few syntactical errors.

This is a round-about way of saying that they come closest to the Hopeless but Motivated category, although with progress they are gaining confidence and getting past the feeling that they are hopeless in English.

There are things that we can do about this situation, apart from complaining about the low level of our students. I designed a course, "Learning Strategies", which I will be giving in Spanish during the 6 weeks' summer orientation period for incoming students. One group will not receive the course, and we will track the groups' overall academic performance during the fall semester to see if there is a significant difference between the control group and the groups that participated in the course--a difference than could be attributed to the Learning Strategies course.

[MixtecaMike]

Good luck with the learning strategies program, I hope you can get the students to actually do it. We have talked about doing one here, but unless the administration makes it compulsory then it's not likely to have any effect.

Students don't seem to get it that an investment in their time for this course will pay off in their other courses. It's strictly connect the dots stuff, Pass Level 1 to progress to Level 2 to ... graduate.

Still, I'm not complaining, at least they don't give me any grief.

[moonraven]

A little over a year ago at a university in the same state university system as the one where I am now, we had a discussion in the TOEFL Preparation class about how the students perceived themselves as viewed by their professors, what messages they received from them--both verbally and non-verbally--and how they FELT about all that. Except for 1 rebellious type who said that the negative messages made him want to work harder, the others were very clear in that negative messages were de-motivating. I think most teachers are not very careful how they relate to students--I see way too much phoney stuff--teachers telling students that they can do whatever they want but not helping them to develop an academic infrastructure--as well as disinterest and aloofness on the part of teachers. Education is a dialog--not a take it or leave it proposition. I suggest reading Paulo Freire--who wrote some wonderful books about being an educator in the Third World, since he saw a lot of it while in exile after the military coup in Brazil in 1964. Last year at an event in Venezuela I was fortunate to meet the person who is implementing--finally--Freire's approach for the Brazilian government; also in Venezuela they have started with Freire's approach in pre-school in the new "Simoncito" schools. I find that very exciting--but then I really believe in students.

[thelmadatter]

none of the above. My students are a mixed bag, or so I thought until I read some of the replies. Now I think I teach the cream of the crop. I guess Tec de Monterrey has an advantage of picking and choosing its students.

[Ben Round de Bloc]

[saraswati]

I agree with Moonraven in that categorizing students predisposes teachers to expect a certain profile. We, as educators, must be very careful about the verbal and non-verbal messages we transmit. Those of us who've been teaching awhile have probably had the classic under-achiever who with a bit of positive reinforcement excelled.

I also agree with Ben about "learning to learn." The traditional school system's been big on memorization and not much else. Ask any kid, with exception of Montessori students, what a river is and they can probably name at least 10 in their state, but they can't tell you how one's formed.

As for our student pool...I'm at a private institute where ESL is the only elective and, as a result of that, the majority of students are motivated - the exceptions being young teens who are forced to attend by well-meaning yet vicariously over-achieving parents.

[seanie]

Blocks, stones, worse than senseless things!

[moonraven]

Students frequently serve the function of a mirror.

[MELEE]

If I didn't think my students were capable of learning, I wouldn't feel like I was doing something worthwhile. If I didn't feel like what I was doing worthwhile, I wouldn't continue to do it.

I was brought up to believe that I have control of my own life, and chance has had very little to do with how I got to where I am now -- I've blazed the trail I've followed. I've tried a few things and discovered that I didn't enjoy doing them, and promptly quit them. I'm always puzzeled by people who don't. Why would you do something you have such negative feelings about? Lifes too short.

[MixtecaMike]

Nobody's answering the question. The point here isn't to complain about your students, it's to advise potential teachers in Mexico of the type of students they could be working with.

If anyone thinks I have been moaning about my students then they are very mistaken. If you think Seanie was saying his students are stupid I think you are also mistaken.

Chingadera, some of you guys need to get a sense of humor.

[moonraven]

Sorry if we didn't give you what you wanted. I think asking us the question in terms of OUR students, and your own opening narrative perhaps misled some of the posters--including this one.

If you're going to try to use Mexican swear words, you might consider learning how to use them correctly. Ask your students.

[Ben Round de Bloc]

[MixtecaMike]

Thanks Ben/Tim

I have to agree about students not being willing/able to put in the time needed to learn a language. Many people are very keen to speak English, but once they see it will take more than an hour or two a week for three months their interest disappears.

At primary-secondary school level, where English is not their main concern students are about as interested as I was at compulsory French lessons at school, ie not at all. They also learn about as much as I did after 6 years of French, Bonjour Monsieur, Je ne parle pas Francais, Au revoir. Finish.

[MELEE]

The question "What do you all think of your Mexican students?" would be a good open ended question--rather than a poll. And the poll answers implied that you wanted to know what we thought of their motivation and ablity to learn English. If you asked me the question with out the options, I probably wouldn't address either of those issues first, but talk about how they interact with the teacher/fellow students in the classroom. If you asked, "What do you all think of your Mexicans students' motivation and ablity to learn English?" My answer wouldn't make any of the options given on the poll.

For the first question, I'd probably answer the same way I answer when people (usually Mexican men) ask me if I like Mexican men.

"Which ones?"

That answer works pretty well with "What do you think of your Mexican students�motivation and ablity to learn English?" too.

I will say that, in any place in the world, the first thing that has to be taken into account with motivation and ablity to learn is what amount of time can/will be realistically alloted to learning. My students have at best five fifty-minute-lessons a week. Only the most talented language learners will make notable improvements on that schedule, it doesn't matter if they are Mexican, German, or Japanese.

I've never met a student here who would not agree that a command of English would be a great asset to them. But I've met very few who were willing to make sacrifices to achieve a command of English.

I HAVE NOT WORKED IN A PRIVATE LANGUAGE SCHOOL IN MEXICO. I assume those students who are paying out of pocket, and taking classes after working hours to try to get a promotion are making more of an effort than university students required to take English.