Job Discussion Forums

[scott wilhelm]

I was watching "Money Line" on CNN a couple of weeks ago and there was much talk about the very bad state of the Mexican economy. The show quoted statistics such as a reported unemployment rate of 14 % but an actual unemployment rate that probably approaches 25 %, as well as aother 25 % of the people being seriously underemployed. CNN indicates that Mexico's economy is continuing to deteriorate and that there was little reason for optomism in the forseeable future.
I have 2 questions. First, is this true ? Second, does this have much of an effect on the availability of teaching jobs ?
Any thoughts you guys have on this will be much appreciated.

[richtx1]

Statistically, it's about 60percent that are under-paid. I did some analysis of the future market for "native speaker" English teachers -- salaries are dropping, and the requirements are rising (don't expect 120 per hour without at least a Master's degree). Additionally, with 10 percent of Mexican adults having worked in the United States, there are more and more bilingual Mexicans. By all means, a person who loves Mexico, or Mexicans (or one particular Mexican) should come. Those with the bizarre idea that teaching is a lucrative career option should look elsewhere.

[scott wilhelm]

Richtx1,
Thanks for the reply. I would be going to Mexico because I love Mexico. Hands down, my favorite foriegn country. Making a huge amount of money isn't a goal of mine. It sounds impossible to achieve it teaching English in Mexico, and I have no interest in huge money anyway. Having said that, I do want to make enough money working full-time that I can live decently-living alone (actually with my cat) in a small apartment in a safe part of town (probably Xalapa or Guadalajara), enough for other essentials, a couple of meals out each week at an inexpensive restaurant, an occasional bus ride to a nearby town or village, with any luck a date every now and then and the occasional renting of a car for getting to whitewater rivers.
With only a B.S. (not in English), no ESL certification and 2 years of part-time experience here in the U.S. with Berlitz, I'm hoping I'm not asking for too much. What do you think ?
I'm hoping to make my decision about Mexico over the next week or so and the advice of you and others is much appreciated. Overwhelmingly, the replies I have gotten from other's on ESL Cafe have been most encouraging. (And I have gotten a lot of replies). If however, there is a high probability of ending up working either not at all, or much less than full-time or at such low pay that affording a quality (but not American) lifestyle isn't possible, I need to know that too.
As for teaching jobs drying up in 20 years, that is not a huge concern for me. As long as they don't dry up within 15 years (at which time I turn 62 and qualify for Social Security) I'm OK.
Oh, on the economy. Are you seeing any signs that Mexico's economy could start performing well over the next several years ? From what I am hearing, the optimism that swelled when President Fox came to power has sort of faded and that the free-market reforms of the last 20 years looked better on paper than they now look on the ground.
Thanks for your help.

[magpie]

If you thinking of qualifying for US Social Security, you better rethink the possiblity of jobs drying up in 20 years. The qualifying age is more like 67 than 62. I recently got my Soc Sec statement and noticed I have to work until 67 and I'm older than you, Scott. I asked a friend of mine when all this happened and she wondered what rock I'd been sleeping under. Apparently, raising the qualifying age happened some time ago--the Reagan administration I was told. No one ever asked me if I wanted to work an extra 5 years--I guess no one asked you either.

[Ben Round de Bloc]

Magpie is right about retirement age (66 or 67) for receiving full benefits from Social Security. However, a person can retire at age 62 and receive reduced benefits. (See http://www.ssa.gov/retirechartred.htm .)

Personally, I am not counting on Social Security benefits to amount to much by the time I retire, and I plan on retiring much sooner than Scott. Of course, it also depends on how much one has paid into the system . . . and how much money will still be in the system when one reaches retirement age. If I were 66 now and could retire with full benefits based on what I had paid into the system during my years of employment in the USA, I'd find it extremely difficult to survive financially on what I would receive (less than $900 USD per month,) also considering that I wouldn't have been paying into the system during all the years I'd been working in Mexico.

[To the grammar police, if my verb tenses are wrong in that long conditional sentence above, cut me some slack, okay? I'm only on my first cup of coffee this morning. Where's the *yawn* emoticon?]

[Ben Round de Bloc]

[scott wilhelm]

Magpie and Tim,
Thanks for the replies.
Tim, I have just a couple of questions. You indicated that you would have a hard time surviving on $ 900 / month. Is that in the U.S. or Mexico or either one ? I had gotten the idea from various books that $ 900 / month would be more than adequate for a comfortable life in Mexico, even for a couple. (Remember those books "Living Well in Mexico on $ 400 a Month" and the follow-ups "Living Well.....on $ 600" and finally "Living Well...on $ 800") ?. What is the amount that one can live decently but somewhat less than American style in Mexico ? Is it possible on what a chain school teacher earns ?
I know that you are in a mid-size city and that the job availability situation you describe is based on the situation in your area. Would you say that the situation is significantly better in Guadalajara ? It is my second choice of where to live, but I do need to find full-time work if my Mexico adventure is going to come off. Keep in mind I'm not looking to live an American middle class lifestyle in Mexico, but I do want to live in a safe apartment, pay my basic expenses and have a little left over for canoe trips, bus rides and hopefully the occasional date (dinner and a movie or something). On that last item, do Mexican women expect the guy to pay or is it normally a Dutch treat arrangement ? Or does it go by who asks who out ? Maybe there is a Mexican feminist waiting for me. Up here at least, feminist women almost insist on paying for half. Hope that's not too off-topic.
Thanks for all your help.

[moonraven]

Xalapa is less expensive than Guadalajara, and it's a much nicer atmosphere--there's a small town feeling, although it is the capital of the state of Veracruz. Because of the university, there are cultural events and an intellectual group. One of the ways I judge the level of a town or a city is by the quality of the books in the used bookstores--Xalapa is right up there. The food is quite good, too!

I do not see Mexico perking up economically in the near future--andmaybe not in the far future, either. Neoliberalism has been implemented since 1982--and it's taken its toll on all areas of the economy. The current government is so out of touch with reality that the president thinks everything is wonderful--since he doesn't read the newspapers--or anything else except cut-rate self-help books--he doesn't see all the evidence to the contrary. 2006 looks very grim--probably the PRI will be back in Los Pinos. If you are coming here in the hopes of living in a country with a progressive government, a growing economy, great outdoor activities, and respect for the rights of the people who live here--you should be going further south--to Venezuela (unless Chavez loses the referendum, of course....)

[scott wilhelm]

Thanks for the reply Moonraven. Sorry to hear you don't see a lot of reason to be optimistic about Mexico's economic or political future. To a point, I don't either. Maybe we're both coming down with a case of Mexican fatalism. On the other hand, I can't help but to believe that most Mexicans aren't growing really sick of neoliberalism. I know that when I was there in '98, most people didn't think much of it. Not many wanted a Cuban path for Mexico. But the few I heard talk about it thought NAFTA was a bad idea and that further privitizations of basic industry should come to a halt. I remember seeing a large demonstration in Morelia against Zedillo's considering the privitization of PEMEX. I don't want to see a full-blown Marxist revolution in Mexico. But I would like to see either a moderate PRD government or a PRI government that faces up to the neoliberal mess it helped make. From what I read about President Fox, he is a super nice guy and believes in his program, but it just isn't working. It sounds like he got elected in the first place more because people were tired of the PRI rather than out of any ideological agreement with him.
Venzuela sounds intriguing. But I don't think I would like it as much as I like Mexico. Most of it sounds pretty warm and humid and Caracas appears to be a mostly modern (not colonial) looking city with bad air.
Despite all its faults-bad economy, wrong party in power (in my opinion), and a somewhat trashed natural environment, I still love Mexico and want to be there if I can survive economically. What do you think, possible if I play my cards right ? Xalapa sounds really great. I'm sure I would love it. But I like Guadalajara a lot and I'm sure they have more language schools.
Thanks for your help.

[Ben Round de Bloc]

[moonraven]

Scott--I don't know where you got the idea that I am a Marxist. Being against the globalization of greed, violence and poverty doesn't make one a Marxist so far as I know. I suggested Venezuela because it's an economy in motion--30% growth in the PIB the first trimester of this year, expected 10% growth for the year--highest in Latin America and one of the highest in the world. It has an enormous geographical variety--ranging from the Andes mountains to lots of great beaches, jungles between the Orinoco and the Amazon, La Gran Sabana, the plains, etc. Caracas is a mixed bag as a city--not a lot of colonial buildings (some were destroyed in the early 19th century earthquake, others torn down in the 60s) , but it does have a lot of cultural events and hands down the best examples of modern architecture in Latin America. My favorite city is Ciudad Bol�var--where they are currently restoring the historical district. And Hugo Ch�vez is not a Marxist either....

Mexico has been flat or in red numbers since Fox took office, and because it's the country with the highest level of debt in the world, has squandered its windfall pretoleum profits on bureaucrats' benefits (and only has 10-12 years of petroleum resrves left), it's simply not going anywhere. I love Mexico, and it makes me mad to see the situation for thepeople here going down the drain more every day. I am not here for economic opportunities, as I am not all that far away from retirement age.

[scott wilhelm]

Moonraven,
I sure didn't intend to imply that you or President Chavez were Marxist. I know that Chavez is on the left ( as am I), but I've never heard anything credible that suggests he is anything more than a moderate leftist and a nationalist.
I have considered Venezueala. But from what I have read, finding English teaching work there is somewhere between difficult and impossible, provided you want to work legally. Also, I am concerned that if Chavez wins the referendum, the Right won't accept the results and may try to overthrow him by force. I can't say that I want to live in a country where there is a high probability of political violence on a large scale. I suspect that Chavez will not go the way of Allende in Chile because Chavez is smart enough to make sure that his supporters are armed and there are many pro-Chavez officers in the Venezuelan military.
He seems to have learned from Chile's experience in the early seventies that a moderate leftist is a sitting duck if the Right has all the guns. Having said that, Venezuela's military is not as far removed from politics as Mexico's. (2 coup attempts in a decade). That is one of the reasons that Mexico is my latin American country of choice when it comes to places to live. The odds of a military coup in Mexico are somewhere between slim and none. Mexico's army is going to accept the results of any election whether it is won by the PRI, the PAN or even the PRD. From what I have read about the PRD it is an essentially moderate left, social democratic party with a small Marxist wing. The Mexican army wouldn't see a PRD president as a threat I wouldn't think. Also, Mexico's military hasn't even attempted to run the country in 85 years. I think that is the longest run of civilian governments anywhere in Latin America.
I appreciate your advice on Venezuela. But it just isn't where I want to be. Mexico is, provided I can make an adequate living there. I'm trying hard to make my decision about my big Mexican adventure and your advice as well as that of the other regulars on ESL Cafe is much appreciated.
Thanks,