Job Discussion Forums

[Tomton]

IH has been advertising for teachers in Eastern Provence of KSA. Before sending off my CV I asked three super relevant (at least for me)questions about the salary, teaching hours and type of accommodation. IH has refused to answer and has asked me to apply first. I've never before heard about a company asking someone to apply for a job without proper information. I am left with the distinct impression there is something fishy going on and they have something to hide. Perhaps they pay less than Berlitz, stack you 10 to a room and ask you to work 24 hours a day. A look at their website reveals they have ties with Hull University in UK so IH must be desperate! I copied my correspondence to IH London and received an automated reply informing me that I will receive a reply with 3 days. A week has now passed and nothing. So can someone please put me out of my misery and give me the low (perhaps very low) down on IH in Saudi?

My correspondence is below.


To IH

Thanks but what a very bizarre reply! I have never before been asked to apply for a position with out knowing the three main ingredients of an overseas job, namely, salary, teaching hours and type of accommodation. Why the secrecy? What are you hiding? Is this the policy of IH worldwide or of IH in Saudi Arabia? Needless to say I will not be applying and will instead contact many of the other employers recruiting in Saudi Arabia, all of which specify in advance their terms of employment.


From: "IH Saudi Arabia" <[email protected]>

Thank you very much for your interest in our institute. However, we will
appreciate if you could send to us your CV for initial evaluation before we
give you the employment offer.

Kind regards,


IH Recruitment

Grateful for a reply to this email I sent you on 16 January.


Dear IH

I am interested in a teaching post in Eastern Province. I am a British
national with a few years teaching experience in the Middle East. However
before I send off my CV could you please let me know the following :

1. Monthly salary
2. Weekly teaching hours
3. Type of accommodation

Many thanks.

Yours faithfully

Tom

[Stephen Jones]

Many places in the Middle East will not be able to make a salary offer until they have seen your detailed CV.

In cases such as government institutions, this is because they have a salary scale and your postion depends on qualifications and experience.

In the case of some private companies it will be because they want to see what they are getting before they make an offer. It's the same as you asking to see goods in a shop before you decide what to offer for them.

What is the problem with sending the CV? Just email it to them, and wait.

[Jim Bigelow]

I'd say it's a bit too late for that now!

[Mark100]

Places who refuse to advertise salary conditions and benefits and want you to apply are to my mind not worth applying to.

What are they trying to hide?

Why should i waste my time applying for a postion that doesn't tell me the pay and conditions.

They have a salary range which they could advertise why don't they?

It seems to becoming more prevelant these days.

Places where the salary are good seem to advertise the salary.

[Stephen Jones]

I agree they should give you the salary range.

Giving an exact salary before seeing somebody's CV is a different matter.

Basically they are just wasting your time. Still it costs nothing to send a bog standard CV.

What they don't seem to understand is that they are going to be wasting their time dealing with candidates who are not interested, and you are not going to show any real interest in them until they give you an idea of salary and conditions.

And yes, these places are normally, but not always, those that offer awful salaries. If they're not , then they are shooting themselves in the foot, because plenty of people will presume they are and not even bother to apply.

[Bebsi]

Hi there Tomtom,

I haven't worked with IH in KSA but I know a little about them.

Firstly, many employers will not give you a salary figure until they see your qualifications and experience, so you must of course submit your CV. However, I do agreee with Stephen Jones that it would make more sense for them to give you an approximate salary scale. However, not everything in KSA 'makes more sense' I don't think it is necessarily becuse they have anything to hide, it's just the way things are done in KSA. I would say, show the CV and be damned.

Back to IH. You would, I reckon, be earning about SAR 8 - 8.5 a month. Not great for that part of the world, but certainly a helluva lot more than the likes of Berlitz, whom I wouldn't touch with the proverbial 40-foot pole.
Accommodation is shared in some locations, single in others, and furnished. You'd want to clarify re things like soft furnishings (linen, towels, utensils etc) and distance from the job. In Jubail, for example, I understand it's a short distance on foot.

The main problem is that you would probably have to do a 6-day week, at least in theory, and the hols aren't great compared to places like KFUPM.

All that being said, I understand that they are pretty up-front, in that what they tell you you will get, you will actually get, ie. salary paid on time etc. There are no hidden traps with them.

IH is not a suitable place if you have significant Gulf experience and you want to make serious dosh. However, it's a very good starting point for getting into Saudi as a first-timer, and a year wouldn't be all that bad. After that, once you have the magic ingredient 'Experience' (meaning Saudi experience), it becomes much easier to get the good ones. It's the exp that is really of importance in Saudi, not extra quals such as MAs etc.

In a nutshell, if you haven't been to Saudi before, and you want to get a foot in the door, send in your CV, see what they offer you, and if you think you can save even a few quid in your first year, go for it. If you are single, without family/wife/girlfriend commitments, it's fine. You will get a feel for KSA, make a few contacts maybe, and get that all-important EXPERIENCE.

Hope I have been of help,

Bebsi.

[Cleopatra]

Everything is relative, in the world of EFL as in anything else.

From what I can judge from their previous ads, IH are offering about 6,000 SAR in KSA. Of course, this is well below what most teachers are earning (many earn double that, with much better working conditions) but then again, unlike the third level institutions where such teachers work, IH does not demand an MA and extensive experience. So I suppose it's a case of getting what you pay for.

I have worked for IH before (in Europe) and while they are generally above-board and honest in their dealings (the school is unlikely to close overnight, and you will get paid, though your salary may leave something to be desired) clearly the package on offer here does not compare to what you can get in the unis and colleges of KSA. Then again, if you don't meet the requirements for such jobs, the comparison is moot. Yes, the salary is poor by KSA standards, but for those coming from Poland or Byelorussia (which is where IH seem to have most of their schools these days) then the pay and conditions are pretty tempting. I repeat, everything is relative.

[Bebsi]

I certainly wan't aware that the IH salary was that low. The reason I previously suggested 8K...ish is that I know someone who was recently offered 8.5K a month with them, but I admit, this guy has a lot of experience and knows the score in the Gulf.

Their hols aren't great, but at a month a year (plus about 10 days - 2 weeks at both Ramadan and Hajj) they are better than many operations such as Berlitz. A former colleague of mine had worked with ELS and got about 9K. Their hols aren't great either but better than some, as I say.

Something that most of the private language schools in KSA seem to do, is to make you turn up on Thursdays (For those non-gulf readers, in the ME generally the weekend is Thursday and Friday. I understand that in many of these establishments there are no classes as such, it's just that there is an idea prevalent in the ME that if you have nothing to do, but they make you sit there anyway, then they are getting better value for money as you are "at work"! This of course makes it impossible to do anything at weekends, and readers of my postings in other threads on the subject of things to do in KSA, will recall my saying that there are actually many things to help you pass a weekend, depending on where you are. Apart from that, a decent weekend is nice

I would not agree an MA is necessary to get a job with the better employers in KSA; however, experience (lots of it, preferably Gulf exp) IS necessary. It may be that an MA cuts down on the amount of experience, but only by a year or two. An MA is not such a big deal in Saudi as in some Gulf states, such as the UAE, where they seem to insist on one for the better jobs.

In terms of hols, best is KFUPM (3 months in summer, 2 weeks at Ramadhan and 3 weeks at Hajj. Also, I believe that this year they have a one-week mid-term break in April? The Royal Commission is also good, with 2 months in summer, 2 weeks at Hajj, ditto Ramadhan.

Basically, as Cleopatra said, it's all relative. It depends to a huge extent on where you are coming from, and what your expectations are. However, some institutions are basically nothing more than glorified slavery, such as Berlitz. Certainly, NO-ONE should even consider working in KSA for 6,000 or even 7,000. BE WARNED!!!!

[Stephen Jones]

With regard to holidays Jubail Industrial College's holidays (and I presume those of any other academic insititution depending on the Royal Commission) are the standard government academic holidays. KFUPM gives you more because it doesn't require you to be back until the students are.
So you will get reasonable holidays in any K1-12 school or government college in Saudi.

[Jim Bigelow]

What are the holidays like in Jubail? Are they shorter than KAAU and KFUPM?
Thanks.

[Stephen Jones]

Normally two weeks for Hajj and Ramadan and eight weeks for summer. KFUPM doesn't ask you back until the students come. We have to be back three or four weeks before, as per the official academic holidays.

[Jim Bigelow]

Really? Jubial sounds very nice but KFUPM sounds great! What about KAAU;does any one have any info about their holiday policy?