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A.K.A.T.D.N.
Joined: 12 Jun 2004
Posts: 170
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 Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 5:26 am Post subject: Now That I'm in Taiwan |
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What's next? The life here is like Mars. There are tons of foreigners and all seem semi-hip, but there doesn't seem to be the cultural immersion I felt so strongly in Korea. No one has yet come up to me and asked me anything pro-Chinese yet like, What do you think of Taiwan?
This is what floored me about Korea. Their accusative attitude about your foreigness stated in questions/statements about their Koreaness. Here, life is just what the Chinese want it to be, nothing more. They do not gloat over their lot in life, as if they've got a big chip on their shoulder. They are people who realize the world out there is different from their own, and accept it, but not without whining and crying about their great cultural losses. Yet I'd like to hear them tell me a little more about who they are and what they stand for, or at least learn a little more about what this culture is like. |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4946
Location: Blabbing
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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Give it some time.
You'll see some racism and arrogance. give it time...
I did Taiwan, korea, Japan, and now China.
Korea is a lot more nationalistic than Taiwan, but you'll see it. |
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A.K.A.T.D.N.
Joined: 12 Jun 2004
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 8:24 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, I think I saw it today. I was sitting on a bench waiting for the MRT, when all of a sudden this cutey pie of an ticket attendant from across the tracks yells "Hey sir, no eating here!"
I say "What?"
She yells again "No eating here!"
I say "But I'm not eating. I'm chewing gum!"
She yells out "No chewing gum either!"
"Just like Singapore" I mutter under my breath, as I toss the gum in a can and look around me for signs. Next thing I know an old custodian woman passes me by, looking at my jeans and cowboy hat like I'm some kind of white trash. A mother and her kid from across the tracks gives me this guilty look. I think next time I'm going to chew up a whole pack and just spit a big glob on the platform.
But what the heck, YOU CAN'T CHEW GUM ON THE MRT? WAS IT REALLY NECESSARY FOR HER TO HOLLAR FROM 50 YARDS AWAY? |
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Frankie Knuckles
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 36
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| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| That is quite strange. I think that is quite amusing that someone from this country would tell to a foreigner to stop chewing gum when it is fine for locals to chew betel nut and spit it out all over the sidewalk. Chewing betel nut is a disgusting habit while chewing gum can be beneficial for personal oral hygiene and fresh breath. The only problem I see with chewing gum is how some people like to dispose of it. I think because in alot of Asian cities there are not enough public trash cans and people, therefore, tend to just throw used gum on the ground so that some poor soul steps on it and has to spend hours removing from their shoes. |
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Fortigurn
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 390
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| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| A.K.A.T.D.N. wrote: |
Yeah, I think I saw it today. I was sitting on a bench waiting for the MRT, when all of a sudden this cutey pie of an ticket attendant from across the tracks yells "Hey sir, no eating here!"
I say "What?"
She yells again "No eating here!"
I say "But I'm not eating. I'm chewing gum!"
She yells out "No chewing gum either!"
"Just like Singapore" I mutter under my breath, as I toss the gum in a can and look around me for signs. Next thing I know an old custodian woman passes me by, looking at my jeans and cowboy hat like I'm some kind of white trash. A mother and her kid from across the tracks gives me this guilty look. I think next time I'm going to chew up a whole pack and just spit a big glob on the platform.
But what the heck, YOU CAN'T CHEW GUM ON THE MRT? WAS IT REALLY NECESSARY FOR HER TO HOLLAR FROM 50 YARDS AWAY? |
This is racism? 
It's not racism. It's just good sense. And she was probably annoyed, because there are signs everywhere telling you that you cannot:
- Eat
- Drink
- Chew gum
- Chew betel nuts
...on the MRT. And rightly so.
Considering that this information is also recited to you regularly on a recorded message in every MRT carriage, and considering the fact that violation of this rule renders you culpable to a $7,500 NT fine, I'd say that she was being extremely reasonable. |
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Fortigurn
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 390
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| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 9:58 am Post subject: |
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I'm sorry, I just can't resist.
| A.K.A.T.D.N. wrote: |
| A mother and her kid from across the tracks gives me this guilty look. |
I think that and the 'white trash' remark were entirely in your imagination.
| Quote: |
| I think next time I'm going to chew up a whole pack and just spit a big glob on the platform. |
I think next time I come to your place, I'm going to vomit on your carpet.
| Quote: |
| But what the heck, YOU CAN'T CHEW GUM ON THE MRT? WAS IT REALLY NECESSARY FOR HER TO HOLLAR FROM 50 YARDS AWAY? |
She's 50 yards away. What's she going to do? Send you a postcard? |
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Fortigurn
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 390
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| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| Frankie Knuckles wrote: |
| That is quite strange. |
For the reasons I've given, it's not strange at all.
| Quote: |
| I think that is quite amusing that someone from this country would tell to a foreigner to stop chewing gum when it is fine for locals to chew betel nut and spit it out all over the sidewalk. |
The issue is not chewing gum just generally, it's chewing gum in the MRT. Chewing betel nut in the MRT is also forbidden.
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| The only problem I see with chewing gum is how some people like to dispose of it. |
I think that's the problem here.
[quoteI think because in alot of Asian cities there are not enough public trash cans and people, therefore, tend to just throw used gum on the ground so that some poor soul steps on it and has to spend hours removing from their shoes.[/quote]
I think that in Taipei the people don't need as many public trash cans, because they are neater and cleaner by far than most people I have seen in large western cities (Sydney, Melbourne, London, New York).
Over here, people keep their part of the pavement scrupulously clean. Never in any other city have I seen shop owners washing, scraping, and sweeping the sidewalk in front of their shop.
I have been amazed and impressed at the almost total lack of litter in Taipei, which sets it apart from everywhere other large city I have seen. |
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MTurton
Joined: 10 Mar 2004
Posts: 107
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| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 10:12 am Post subject: |
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Over here, people keep their part of the pavement scrupulously clean. Never in any other city have I seen shop owners washing, scraping, and sweeping the sidewalk in front of their shop.
I have been amazed and impressed at the almost total lack of litter in Taipei, which sets it apart from everywhere other large city I have seen. |
Yes, the Taiwanese reserved their litter for the countryside. The cities are remarkably clean, especially when you take into account their incredible population densities. But the gov't does a good job of collecting the trash, too.
Another fascinating aspect of this habit is how dirty the buildings can get on the inside, and how dingy they are on the outside. How many Bushibans have I been in where the walls haven't been watched since the KMT came over? Yet the pavement in front is spotlessly clean. The world is full of paradoxes....
And of course, the Taiwanese in cities burn their trash, converting it into air pollution instead of eye pollution...
MTurton |
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Fortigurn
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 390
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| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| MTurton wrote: |
| Yes, the Taiwanese reserved their litter for the countryside. The cities are remarkably clean, especially when you take into account their incredible population densities. But the gov't does a good job of collecting the trash, too. |
In other words, the city folk take more pride in their surrounding, and the country folk are slobs.
| Quote: |
| Another fascinating aspect of this habit is how dirty the buildings can get on the inside, and how dingy they are on the outside. How many Bushibans have I been in where the walls haven't been watched since the KMT came over? Yet the pavement in front is spotlessly clean. The world is full of paradoxes.... |
I've found quite the opposite - grimy buildings covered in Taipei pollution, and shining floors and walls.
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| And of course, the Taiwanese in cities burn their trash, converting it into air pollution instead of eye pollution... |
I haven't seen that yet, but apparently it's illegal, so I've been told. |
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Aristotle
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1388
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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Relax, don't breath too deeply when outside and stay out of traffic as best as you can.
Now go find a job,
Good luck,
A. |
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A.K.A.T.D.N.
Joined: 12 Jun 2004
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 3:57 am Post subject: |
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| Fortigurn wrote: |
| A.K.A.T.D.N. wrote: |
Yeah, I think I saw it today. I was sitting on a bench waiting for the MRT, when all of a sudden this cutey pie of an ticket attendant from across the tracks yells "Hey sir, no eating here!"
I say "What?"
She yells again "No eating here!"
I say "But I'm not eating. I'm chewing gum!"
She yells out "No chewing gum either!"
"Just like Singapore" I mutter under my breath, as I toss the gum in a can and look around me for signs. Next thing I know an old custodian woman passes me by, looking at my jeans and cowboy hat like I'm some kind of white trash. A mother and her kid from across the tracks gives me this guilty look. I think next time I'm going to chew up a whole pack and just spit a big glob on the platform.
But what the heck, YOU CAN'T CHEW GUM ON THE MRT? WAS IT REALLY NECESSARY FOR HER TO HOLLAR FROM 50 YARDS AWAY? |
This is racism?
It's not racism. It's just good sense. And she was probably annoyed, because there are signs everywhere telling you that you cannot:
- Eat
- Drink
- Chew gum
- Chew betel nuts
...on the MRT. And rightly so.
Considering that this information is also recited to you regularly on a recorded message in every MRT carriage, and considering the fact that violation of this rule renders you culpable to a $7,500 NT fine, I'd say that she was being extremely reasonable. |
Fortigurn goes too far and thinks that any anti-racist suggestions are rampant reverse racism since he's the one who can understand Chinese.
Sounds kind of arrogant and proud, not to mention the fact there are no signs whatsoever I saw and a woman, or Chinese, to a visiting foreigner should at least be a little more sensitive and understanding, something we in the West call "cultural sensitivity" since yeah, chewing gum is healthy and I'm an adult and no, there aren't "Signs everywhere" so perhaps Fortigurn ought to be a train attendant and enlighten us with his bull-crap instead of posting it here. |
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Aristotle
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1388
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 7:18 am Post subject: |
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No chewing gum on the MRT in Taipei but their are preteen school kids selling drugs and sex on public busses in Taichung.
I will never understand how there can be such a difference in laws and enforcement over such a small distance.
Had a police officer in Taipei threaten me with a ticket for jay walking. In Koasiung a South African was hit walking on a sidewalk by a drunk cop on duty who then had to let the South African help him turn off his scooter.
Welcome to Taiwan,
A. |
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Fortigurn
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 390
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| Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| A.K.A.T.D.N. wrote: |
| Fortigurn goes too far and thinks that any anti-racist suggestions are rampant reverse racism since he's the one who can understand Chinese. |
Firstly, I didn't for a moment suggest that your comments were 'rampant reverse racism'. I just thought they were uninformed, and that they demonstrated a lack of sensitivity to the fact that you're in a foreign country with a different culture, and different rules.
Secondly, I can't speak Chinese. But that's ok, because the rules against eating and drinking are posted in English, and the rules against eating, drinking, and chewing gum or betel nut are displayed in English in the carriages, and announced in English in the carriages, regularly. I practically know them by heart already.
| Quote: |
| Sounds kind of arrogant and proud, not to mention the fact there are no signs whatsoever I saw and a woman, or Chinese, to a visiting foreigner should at least be a little more sensitive and understanding, something we in the West call "cultural sensitivity" since yeah, chewing gum is healthy and I'm an adult and no, there aren't "Signs everywhere" so perhaps Fortigurn ought to be a train attendant and enlighten us with his bull-crap instead of posting it here. |
I'm sorry you thought that my post suggesting you should comply with the rules of the country you're in (instead of complaining about them), was 'arrogant and proud'.
I'm also sorry you haven't seen the signs (they are there), or listened to the relevant announcement (made regularly, in English).
Further, I fail to see how the woman was being insensitive - she told you what the rule was, and clarified it when you wanted to argue the point.
What's the actual issue here? Is it just that you're being asked to do something you want to continue doing? |
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A.K.A.T.D.N.
Joined: 12 Jun 2004
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 9:48 am Post subject: |
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Let's drop it, just like the gum. But really there aren't any signs that I've seen depicting not chewing gum. They're all "No eating, drinking, smoking." I checked and I checked. Now about the announcements, I've yet to hear one. Therefore to single a foreigner out may be a little racist, and it may be not. But then again I think of when I first landed at C.K.S. and another female told me to take off my cowboy hat while I walked through customs. Now is this a "rule" here too? Cause the Chinese guy not far from me didn't take his off at all.
Maybe I'm a mysoginist, or maybe it's the fact that the Chinese think people who wear cowboy hats( which I've seen plenty of at the airport,) are "country bumpkins." Well heck, can a leopard change its spots? It's pretty much what I'd call "prejudice" and prejudice is a form of racism. Period.
Apologize about the "arrogant and proud" remark. |
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Pop Fly
Joined: 15 Feb 2003
Posts: 429
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| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 3:25 am Post subject: |
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| A.K.A.T.D.N. wrote: |
Let's drop it, just like the gum. But really there aren't any signs that I've seen depicting not chewing gum. They're all "No eating, drinking, smoking." I checked and I checked. Now about the announcements, I've yet to hear one. Therefore to single a foreigner out may be a little racist, and it may be not. But then again I think of when I first landed at C.K.S. and another female told me to take off my cowboy hat while I walked through customs. Now is this a "rule" here too? Cause the Chinese guy not far from me didn't take his off at all.
Maybe I'm a mysoginist, or maybe it's the fact that the Chinese think people who wear cowboy hats( which I've seen plenty of at the airport,) are "country bumpkins." Well heck, can a leopard change its spots? It's pretty much what I'd call "prejudice" and prejudice is a form of racism. Period.
Apologize about the "arrogant and proud" remark. |
I guess I am not going to "drop" it. The message scrolls across the big signs on all platforms as well as above each door once on the train. "please do not chew gums or betelnuts" (yes gum is pluralized).
Sure, you are new here. You can't keep from trying to desperately make eye contact with all the beauties you see. But that does not explain why you are deaf. An announcement is made every 5 minutes (okay 10 at the most) about not chewing gum. It carries a potential $7500NTD fine. It even has subtle dire undertones so you almost must pay attention.
Oh, I know, it's hard to hear with your head up yer butt.
Like Fortigurn said, she wasn't gonna walk the distance to save you some money. She could have easily walked the distance to get the orange-vested guy who would write you a ticket.
Wow, I just got an inkling of what goes on under that cowboy hat of yours....
"I am sooo American...I have a cowboy hat...how dare you talk to me...I can chew gum wherever I want...I am a cowboy...wooooohoooo...howdy, howdy, howdy....."
Someone is suffering from believing his own hype too much, methinks...American Manifestdestiny.....go ahead cowboy.....keep chewing gum.... |
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