Job Discussion Forums

double agent · Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:25 pm Post subject: info on Kuwait tesl environment

IPETQ..do they hire without a Diploma..i have a tesol and first degree.
and several years experience.

I have read the board but have seen no new information on Kuwait.
What is the working environment like now and the offer is it reasonable 700 kd.

strawberry · Joined: 23 Jun 2004 Posts: 15

I've heard about IPETQ. I guess they're an okay company. 700 kd is about the average salary for language institutes in Kuwait. I have friends at both IPETQ and Humansoft (another language center in Kuwait). IPETQ hires by contract. Their employees work at company based training sites. The only problem is that you might have to take leave without pay if they don't have any new contracts for you. Humansoft allows you to work in their language centers when the contract finishes. But I heard that HumanSoft doesn't treat their employees very well (that's what my friends say). And with the political situation in Iraq these days, I think most companies will take who they can get. I wouldn't worry so much about qualifications. (At least not in the Middle East).

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

I must say that I find this a very odd statement:

"I think most companies will take who they can get. I wouldn't worry so much about qualifications. (At least not in the Middle East)." (Strawberry)

Without qualifications in the Middle East, you end up with the jobs at the bottom of the pay, benefits and working conditions - like ITEPQ and Humansoft and other even sleazier organizations. Or you can go to the places that are desperate for staff like Saudi with its current attendant risks.

I would say that qualifications are crucial in much of the Middle East with and MA often the minimum.

Double Agent:

I'm not sure what you mean by not having a 'diploma' - I had assumed that 'first degree' means a BA? --- 700 KD is about usual for language schools - but if you don't also get housing and tickets and such on top of that, you won't have much left over for entertainment, such as it is.

VS

double agent · Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 10:16 pm Post subject: Ment..

ment TEFL Diploma... I have a TEFL certificate, and a BA.

I should have been clear. I keep reading the words you need a Diploma,
not just a degree on this board. So I imagined that to mean the TEFL Diploma.

Thanks for the information. I`ll keep looking.

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

Double Agent,

To be honest, I don't know what the difference is between a diploma and a certificate. I thought that they were the same thing - they seem to be used interchangeably on this board.

My confusion may be due to the fact that in the US we don't much use either term.

VS

strawberry · Joined: 23 Jun 2004 Posts: 15

it seems to me that somebody in this forum is taking himself a little too seriously.

double agent · Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 7:59 pm Post subject: being clear

dear Strawberry

i am not sure whom u mean. but i thought we were all being polite.
guess i was wrong.

strawberry · Joined: 23 Jun 2004 Posts: 15

dear double agent,

i WAS being polite. if i was being anything other than polite, i would have said something else in my previous posting. i respect everybody in this forum. but my comment about qualifications was criticized. i responded to that comment, but it wasn't directed towards you. good luck with your search.

Cleopatra · Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 6:36 pm Post subject:

Hi VS!

The way I've always heard the terms being used, a "TEFL Cert." is the basic teaching qualification which can be obtained in 1 month full-time, 3 months part-time. The "TEFL Diploma", on the other hand, is a higher qualification, for which you need at least one years' post Cert. experience. Depending on whether you do it by DL or not, it takes up to one year, and there are both theory and practical exams. Apparantly, there is a 50% failure rate!

double agent · Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 7:07 pm Post subject: strawberry

I guess i thought you were insulting one of us. Embarassed

Must have been one of those online misunderstandings.

thanks Cleo for clarifying the Diploma Certificate case.

And no I don`t have a tesl diploma but i don`t believe
i am less the teacher for it. As I am one who is constantly
looking for new approaches, materials, techniques, and feel
that the MARKET for these Diplomas is over rated and has
too much to do with marketing.

From the seminars I have taken by teachers who are in training for
it they were barely passable in the Certificate level in my eyes.

I went through a grueling course, and stand by my HONOURS stamp on it.

Unfortunately the same can be said for a MA in Tesol, lots of theroy but tell me what student benifits from it. It is part of the Academia money making machine.

I feel frustrated by the UAE requirements as I have met some of the people who have taught there and they are not so great.

I am sure there are many of you out there who have worked incredibly hard to obtain the Diploma, but HOW MUCH have you really changed your teaching habits. Either you are a person who is constantly learning new
things or your not.

Cleopatra · Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 7:28 pm Post subject:

While I agree with you that an MA or Dip. does not a good teacher make, and I know that there are plenty of rubbish teachers with loads of letters after their names, at the same time you have to see it from the employers' point of view.

Having decent qualifications shows that not only have you been exposed to the latest thinking in the EFL game (for what it's worth - not neccessarily very much, I agree) but also that you have some sort of commitment to what you do. Also, how can we as teachers expect employers to respect us and treat us as professionals, if we are also not prepared to get professional qualifications? It cuts both ways, after all. In how many other "professions" can you get a relatively well-paid job without relevant qualifications?

double agent · Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 8:09 pm Post subject: point

you have a point.

Mark100 · Joined: 05 Feb 2003 Posts: 441

Having decent qualifications shows that not only have you been exposed to the latest thinking in the EFL game (for what it's worth - not neccessarily very much, I agree) but also that you have some sort of commitment to what you do. Also, how can we as teachers expect employers to respect us and treat us as professionals, if we are also not prepared to get professional qualifications? It cuts both ways, after all. In how many other "professions" can you get a relatively well-paid job without relevant qualifications?

The main reason for requiring an MA has more to do with market forces than anything else.
Employers have so many candidates to choose from that they need a culling tool and a useful start is the requirement of a MA.
Now that MA's are becoming so commonplace i believe that it will not be long before PHd's are required for classroom teaching jobs or some further qualification in computers for example. It is really all about credentialism.
Most MA's do not assist the classroom teacher in any practical and from my experience the TESOL certificate was much more useful in the classroom situation than the Masters.
Now considering the notion of TESOL being relatively well paid well i have to laugh at that one. If you consider the cost of your undergraduate degree, TESOL cert and Masters and the time spent on top of the course costs with the sort of salary that is on offer with little chance of any career advancement i would say that TESOL teachers teach for the love ot it and are obviously not good at Maths as they would never have considered it a career choice if money played any part in the equation.

Cleopatra · Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:33 am Post subject:

I agree with Mark that an MA is of less value to day-to-day teaching practice than the "humble" CELTA. I also agree that the MA also serves as a kind of cut-off point for employers who get a large number of applicants, which is probably the case for the most popular places in the UAE and elsewhere. I too, feel that, "qualification inflation" is taking place all the time - as far as I know, only a few years ago, most places in the ME did not required an MA at all.

"Now considering the notion of TESOL being relatively well paid well i have to laugh at that one"

Well - that's not what I said, or at least it's not what I meant. What I meant was that EFL jobs in the Gulf, are - relative to the rest of the EFL world - very well-paid and with good working conditions. this is what I meant by "relative" - and everything is relative, after all.

Mark100 · Joined: 05 Feb 2003 Posts: 441

Cleopatra

Teaching salaries for teachers in the Gulf are extremely low compared to other expat salaries in the Gulf.
They are only reasonable when compared to teaching salaries in your home country.
Teaching is i maintain a job that you do for the love and not the money.