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Stereotypes anyone?
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blackguy-n-Asia



Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:36 pm    Post subject: Stereotypes anyone? Reply with quote

Importing stereotypes of Western culture should be forbidden by the Geneva Convention.

Many teachers seem to have a need for teaching 'other cultures' by showing classy movies that are regarded as entertainment in the West. They should be careful.

An example would be:

"I teach about African culture in America by showing movies like Friday, Boyz in the Hood and Shaft. We then talk about guns, violence and drugs."

or

" I try to bring Italian culture to my students with movies like Casino, Goodfellas or showing The Sopranos."
We then have a discussion on the Mafia, cement galoshes and words like bada-bing"

or

"Watching Braveheart got my class in tune with Scotts"

Please be careful what you teach your students, there may be a budding Adolf Hitler in the class, just waiting to learn about your biased opinion of others.
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Ludwig



Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 1096
Location: 22� 20' N, 114� 11' E

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for a post full of such outstanding insights. It is sure to help the teachers of Hong Kong.

Have you perhaps considered forwarding your proposal onto the EMB and/or some local universities? I am sure they would be interested in your research.
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Mark-O



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 464
Location: 6000 miles from where I should be

PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks b-n-a!

If I come to Hong Kong and teach primary, I'll think twice about putting in an '18 certificate' dvd in the machine so as not to promote inaccurate racial stereotypes which may in turn lead to global genocide.
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migo



Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Importing stereotypes of Western culture should be forbidden by the Geneva Convention.


How about leave the Geneva Convention for important things. If you waste useless crap like that on it, countries will be much more likely to just ignore everything in it.
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blackguy-n-Asia



Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why so ignorant in Hong Kong?

"We don't need to know about racism here!" Not important? If you think that, you shouldn't be a teacher.

I've posted this on other sites. Japan, China, etc I don't get the same level of blunt ignorance.

Maybe Ludwig has five other aliases that all talk trash Crying or Very sad

Teaching about racism is as important as any other subject.

Enlighten yourself and others.
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Mark-O



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 464
Location: 6000 miles from where I should be

PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blackguy-n-Asia wrote:
Why so ignorant in Hong Kong? ...... Enlighten yourself and others.


Excuse me, but who are you to tell the teachers on this forum that they are "ignorant" to racism, or worse still, that they should "enlighten" themselves to said subject?

To be quite frank, your initial post was hugely patronising to say the least, and at worse stenched of troll bait. What on earth made you think that Hong Kong teachers are dense and irresponsible enough to show school children, or otherwise, violent 18-certificate films and preach cultural stereotypes from them?
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migo



Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I've posted this on other sites. Japan, China, etc I don't get the same level of blunt ignorance.


That's because in the Japan forum they're discreetly mocking you. Here Ludwig and Mark-O are doing it straight to your face. You should be greatful that they're being straighforward with you.
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once again



Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 815

PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark o wrote

" Excuse me, but who are you to tell the teachers on this forum that they are "ignorant" to racism, or worse still, that they should "enlighten" themselves to said subject?"

Mark-O, it is certainly a fair comment and well made. The intelligent should not need to be reminded of such things...but

Ludwig wrote

"In addition, I am (said to be) fully fluent in Mandarin, though with a mere four tones and the limited conversations that this language�s speakers conduct this is not exactly difficult."

I think comments like that show a kind of insidious cultural prejudice that certainly needs to be corrected. To suggest that all Mandarin speakers have nothing but limited conversations shows that even the most highly qualified and indeed, the most vocal about their qualifications, need to be reminded of what may be harboured prejudices.
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Ludwig



Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 1096
Location: 22� 20' N, 114� 11' E

PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blackguy-n-Asia wrote:
Why so [sic] ignorant in Hong Kong?

Who, exactly, is the subject here? Anyway, assuming an instance of (somewhat strange) ellipsis, I would have to say that no one is so much "ignorant", as more generally less willing to suffer fools.

blackguy-n-Asia wrote:
"We don't need to know about racism here!" Not important??

No one - to my knowledge (based on reading the above posts) at least - has even so much as suggested that "we" do not "need" to know about such issues "here", rather, that they do not neccesarily feel that they need to be told it by such an obvious cretin (who, as it happens, is not even in Asia, let alone Hong Kong) in such a puerile manner. As noted by 'Mark-O', your post was at best "hugely patronising", and at worst, "stenched of troll bait".

blackguy-n-Asia wrote:
I've posted this on other sites. Japan, China, etc I [sic] don't [sic] get the same level of blunt ignorance.

I had to indulge in a little chuckle at that comment; perhaps for reasons you could never actually come to comprehend. Anyway, the Japan and China forums will have to answer for themselves on the results of your impressive comparative research. As regards the post over on the China (on-topic) forum, however, you will of course know fully well that I stated that it seemed "to me as if you hold some (somewhat worrying and wholly unexamined and unidentified) stereotypes yourself" - a point to which no reply has yet to materialise. As for the post on the Japan forum, as you also know, not one of respondents actually even so much as acknowledges your initial 'comments' (I use this word in its broadest possible sense and only as means of ready identification).

blackguy-n-Asia wrote:
Maybe Ludwig has five other aliases that all talk trash

Or, alternatively, it may simply be that you do not have the inner 'stuff' (I am trying to dumb-down my language for you) required for the acceptance of a well-aimed critique.

One more point is in order. 'Once again' once again attempts some trollish behaviour, though, once again, fails somewhat miserably. He personally quite obviously does not possess even the slightest abilities in Mandarin and so, in fact, has no idea whatsoever as to the content (if any) of Mainland discourse. He also quite obviously is equally as lacking in pragmatic skills; in this particular case not identifying comments made in salient jest. It could also be added that this is quite clearly perhaps the very first time 'Once again' has taken such a moral high ground. When, for example, 'Marcoregano', over at:

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=7872

writes that the local HK Chinese are "so extraordinarily dull that [his] drive to commune with them is virtually non-existent", the only response of the moral preacher 'Once again', somewhat paradoxically, is to merely question the 'exclusive to Hong Kong' status of Cantonese (hardly germane). When 'Marco' goes on to reiterate that the local HK Chinese are "so incredibly boring", with "a very childish and often sneering sense of humour", his reply is, well, a deafening silence. This, of course, is very telling, indeed.

When 'Wanbro' furthers that the extent of the local HK Chinese conversations only run to "Horses. Mobile Phones. Cameras. Laugh at the gweilo. Verbally abuse mainlanders. Food again. Andy Lau. Tung Chee-whatsisname. Standard of English teaching. Karaoke. SOGO and *that* new gym that just opened in Causeway Bay. Whether the new haircut makes them look Japanese. MP3 players. That 1997 soap opera. Rice or noodles? How cold it is. How hot it is. Comments about colleagues (which must be pronounced 'college')" again, somewhat oddly to say the very least, the reaction of the preacher 'Once again' is silence. I guess most will have gotten the picture by now.


Last edited by Ludwig on Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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blackguy-n-Asia



Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why the rabid hatred in Hong Kong?

Does everyone agree that 'we' are all to wise, and that 'we' don't need a post reminding us that stereotypes and racism is wrong?

Why the pompous "I don't need the likes of you telling me this?'
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Ludwig



Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 1096
Location: 22� 20' N, 114� 11' E

PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blackguy-n-Asia wrote:
Why the rabid hatred in Hong Kong?

Who, exactly, is the subject here?

blackguy-n-Asia wrote:
Does everyone agree that 'we' are all to [sic] wise, and that 'we' don't need a post reminding us that stereotypes and racism is wrong?

No, on both counts. "We", however, unlike you, can distinguish between 'to', 'too', and 'two'.

blackguy-n-Asia wrote:
Why the pompous "I don't need the likes of you telling me this?'

That is simply because the manner you were 'telling' (like, I'm hating this, like, US-style, like, perpetually-present, like, gerund form) us "this" was, like, hideously grotesque.
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migo



Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"In addition, I am (said to be) fully fluent in Mandarin, though with a mere four tones and the limited conversations that this language�s speakers conduct this is not exactly difficult."

I think comments like that show a kind of insidious cultural prejudice that certainly needs to be corrected. To suggest that all Mandarin speakers have nothing but limited conversations shows that even the most highly qualified and indeed, the most vocal about their qualifications, need to be reminded of what may be harboured prejudices.


I think it just shows that you don't have that much of a grasp of Mandarin. I'll admit I'm no expert on the subject, but with 1,062 characters considered by the PRC government to be essential for communication there isn't that much to memorise to be fluent in Mandarin - especially for speakers of Cantonese. Cantonese has twice as many tones, so using only half the sounds you're capable of producing isn't a particular challange, nor is sticking to a comparatively small standard vocabulary.
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once again



Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 815

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for reinforcing my point so eloquently Ludwig: and going to all that research too. It seems you have proved that you are not the only one who is in need of some racial sensitivity training: Which makes my post all the more "germane".

As for "preaching", you have highlighted that I am not a preacher, as I did not react to the mentioned posts. So that may be just you in defensive mode trying to detract from the validity of my posting. However, had they posted such replies as yourself in this thread, I would have reminded them also that they may be at fault at times. Now, on the subject of hypocrisy; that could really get me preaching.


Last edited by once again on Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:17 am; edited 3 times in total
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once again



Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 815

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Migo wrote..

Quote:
I think it just shows that you don't have that much of a grasp of Mandarin.


I think that just shows that you have not understood my point
Quote:
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Mark-O



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 464
Location: 6000 miles from where I should be

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisRose,

Could I request that you remove both of your above posts as, as if on cue, they are ignominiously racist in content.

My understanding of your second post is an implication that Hollywood's portrayal of blacks in the aforementioned films could not be inaccurate or contrived? This would suggest that you concur with these stereotypes? To add insult to injury, this is preceded with a jibe at (presumably) a stereotypical black dialect - wholly inappropriate, especially considering that you are in fact a MODERATOR on this forum.

As for the link you posted - was that meant to be funny? What an advert for teachers in Hong Kong!

This thread has revealed that maybe I was too presumptuous in my initial evaluation of racism on this board, and that b-n-a was warranted in his original intention for posting about this subject and its relevance to Hong Kong teachers. Clearly, the issue of 'racial sensitivity' has yet to reach some of the members on this board.
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