Job Discussion Forums

[Paul in Saudi]

Yes, I know, this is an ESL board, not a vacation one. Still, I am an ELT in Saudi Arabia and want to scope out retirement sites at the lake.

While I am in the greater Guadalajara, any recommendations of places to see and stuff? Presently the only things I have on my list is to buy a hard Rock Cafe shirt and to sit in the local Masonic Lodge.

(Well, that and tease some real estate agents.)

What else?

[emilysarah]

If you want to get out of the city and see some cool stuff you could go to the volcan de colima but it is about 2 hours away. I dont know how much you are into the nature thing but it is an impressive park and volcano. Take a bus or drive to Ciudad Guzman and then a local bus or drive to Fresnito. If you leave early, you could make it a day trip but it would take a few days to make it to the top if you are hiking.

[Paul in Saudi]

Me hike? I think not. I would like to see some of the area south of the lake. The maps of the area look promising in terms of undiscovered retirement places.

[moonraven]

Trust me, there are no "undiscovered" retirement places in the area you are looking at. It's overrun by gringos, some of whom are anti-Mexican and have polarized most of the communities because of their behavior.

[Paul in Saudi]

Well, I do trust you, but there is something to seeing the place my ownself.

Although I speak Spanish (with an accent that makes little girls giggle) and although I have lived in Panama for many years, I am and guess I will always be a Gringo. In one way I am looking for a Gringo community of 'just' the right size.

In any case, I am eager to get the heck out of here for a while.

[moonraven]

Have you considered the US? That's a gringo community. Fairly big one, though--might not be the right size.

[ls650]

There's that sweet Moonraven that we all know and love.

[Paul in Saudi]

Well, all the ESL boards have their own Holier-than-thous.

No the US is out. I lived overseas too long to go back there. Too many Gringos.

[scott wilhelm]

Paul,
I have never lived in the area you are talking about but I have spent a total of about 4 weeks in the Guadalajara area. From what I saw, it should be a fine area to retire to. The fact that there are a lot of Americans and Canadians in the area didnt strike me as being a good thing or a bad thing. It certainly wouldn't put me off of living in an area with great scenery, good food and a near perfect climate.
I never actually went to the south shore of Lake Chapala. The north shore struck me as very nice. Chalapa is an OK town. But I thought that a nearby town, Ajicic', was much nicer. I don't know if you have ever been there or not, and I haven't been there since '96, but at that time it was really a neat little town. I'll always remember how colorful the houses were along the cobble stoned streets. The town has a little bit of a Carribean look. Very friendly people. At that time, I didn't see any signs of hostility between the Americans and Canadians living there and the Mexicans. It looked like people got along well enough.
Guadalajara itself is a very nice city. Bigger than I would prefer, but not overwhelming. I like the old European look that the central part of the city has. It seemed like a fair # of Americans living in Guadalajara lived in gated communities resembling subdivisions that you see in southern California. Some Mexicans may be offended by that, others not. Other American retirees live in regular Mexican dominated neighborhoods and say they like it. I did get the impression that a handful of Americans living in the gated communities felt that Guadalajara was much more dangerous than it really is.
Another town/city that isn't quite in the area you're talking about but is only about 3 hours away and that you may want to take a look at is Guanajuato. Really a beautiful place. In fact, among the 3 prettiest towns I have visited in Mexico. Very hilly and lots of spectacular architecture. There is a fairly small contingent of Americans there. Nothing even resembling the American community around Lake Chapala. If you're going to be visiting Guadalajara anyway, well worth the bus fare to Guanajuato.
Good luck with your vacation and your retirement plans.

[moonraven]

Guess I should be specific about what I saw in the area you are talking about visiting, since Scott has been. Different people see different things in the same places. I spent part of a vacation there a little over 12 years ago. Perhaps my perception was colored by arriving the day after the big explosion in the sewers in Guadalajara (ironically on Earth Day), in which the main mercado was blown up and a fair amount of the downtown suffered damage (not to mention a bunch of people were killed).

At any rate, we decided under the circumstances to rent a car and get out of town. On the way back from spending most of the trip in Guanajuato and Michoacan, we decided to rest in Aji�c. The first bad sign was the prominent display in the little hotel where we stayed of a "community" newspaper--which started off its self-introduction by saying that everybody was a gringo in Aji�c, and there was no need to learn Spanish!

When I went out to take photographs for a series I was making of Mexican churches at the time, I saw that the gringos never appeared in the street except in packs of at least 4. Fortunately, the church I wanted to make images of was in a part of town where they did not venture--as I found out when I stopped for a snack in a little cafeteria and a radio repairperson commented to the waitress on my unusual presence there--who knows what he would have said if I had not informed him that I spoke Spanish.

For me the atmosphere was not so charming, as I was collared while I was there by a number of gringos who were looking for a place to retire and who tried to talk my ear off about how things were not as cheap as they had been led to believe--as if it were my fault? I finally heard enough and suggested they retire in Florida if they were not willing to learn the language and live with the people in "real" circumstances.

In Chapala I was also given an earful-- this time by the locals, about how everything was so expensive because the gringos had driven up the prices and locals couldn't afford to live there anymore. Since that was what had happened in Santa Fe, New Mexico, where I was still living at the time, I could certainly understand their concerns.

We stopped in several other little towns in the area before heading back to Guadalajara--and wherever we went the scenery was blighted by billboards advertising condominiums and other housing developments. That was in April of 1992, and I doubt very much that the gringo development craze has been reversed. That doesn't usually happen anywhere. At any rate, I have not been interested in making a return trip to see if things have magically changed. I found the whole area south of Guadalajara depressing--especially after stopping in a number of attractive spots in Guanajuato and Michoacan--in particular an absolutely magical spot on a beautiful lake called Zirahu�n....

[Paul in Saudi]

Thank you both. I am printing your comments to review at work. More later.

[Paul in Saudi]

All in all, I have to go. I have never been there and I have got to see it with my own eyes before I start making plans to retire. Besides, I have a free flight thanks to frequent flier miles.

I need to see with my own eyes how far the Gringoification has gone, and how far it is likely to go in the next decade or so.

Thank you all for your comments.