Job Discussion Forums

[Egas]

What is it about China that nobody has any change? This is something totally bizarre that I have noticed since I cam here 15 months ago. I've lost count of the amount of cab drivers who can't give you changes for 40Yuan when the fare is 25Yuan.

I bought an ice cream once at a bar, during the day. The ice cream was in a flat-top fridge, which was locked with a padlock. It took the girl three minutes to find the key, then another two minutes to open the lock. It cost 3 Yuan, and I gave her five Yuan. She said sorry, but they didn't have any change for the 5. I didn't have anything smaller, so she pulled out a receipt book, and gave me a receipt for 2Yuan and told me to come back in a couple of hours when they had change. I had to sign the receipt of course. This all took about 5 minutes - just to buy an ice cream!

Another time I bought a salad sandwich at the gym. I stood and looked on as the guy serving me took fully five minutes before he even pulled all the stuff out of the fridge, then almost another ten minutes to make the sandwich. To top it off, after I ate the sandwich I gave him the cash, and the change was 2 Mao. He didn't have 2 Mao, so he went downstairs, and was asking gym members who came in the front doors if they had two Mao! It took another five minutes until he finally found someone. I could have walked out, but it was too good a show to miss! This guy made Manuel from Faulty Towers look good!

Some people say China will rule the world in 50 years. Personally, I can�t see them ruling the local fruit market. The system is just too authoritarian and top heavy, so that the average worker and student has no idea how to take responsibility or make intelligent decisions. Nobody knows anything about what the guy two feet away from him is doing. Chinese can remember strings of numbers as long as your arm, but any question that begins with "Why" is mostly beyond them. There needs to be a big overhauling of the entire education system, and of course for this to happen, the entire society has to make a big shift.

Maybe then, the cab drive will be able to give me change for the 40Y.

[Roger]

Your experience might be locale-specific as it certainly is at variance with mine!
Taxi drivers often like to pocket the difference, but in some big cities it has been declared illegal, and in Guangzhou for instance, you can lodge a complaint against any driver who contravened this rule. They are obliged to hand you a receipt if you request one, and they display the dirver's ID on the dashboard.
It is true, however, that Chinese often lack training and logic to deal with money in the proper way! We tend to notice only those instances when we feel we are being short-changed. It often goes the other way around.
I went to a fast food restaurant some years ago when this kind of eatery was still relatively new. I got my food alright, paid, then noticed they had given me some wrong item. Instead of exchanging it for the right one, they gave me the right one on top of the wrong one - for free!
And one school stated in the contract that my salary was 3700 RMB; mysteriously, they paid out 3800 every month. I even pointed it out to them orally (without having my contract in my hand). Useless exercise - I was paid 3800 every month for a whole year!
This is not to distract from the fact that every decision is made at the top, and the various cogs involved in transmitting decisions down to you have absolutely no clue of what they are doing.

[Egas]

I wasn't for a moment suggesting that this lack of change is an attempt to rob people. It just seems to be a total lack of organisation and planning. I think a lot of taxi drivers are incapable of thinking things out logically, and planning ahead for the day. As I suggested, I think a lot of that has to do with the education sytem (and society) which robs people of individual choice and responsibility.

[dan]

i think your phrase "total lack of organization and planning" is the default. if you remain vexed after putting in what you consider sufficient time and thought into one of china's numerous inexplicables, simply defer to your quote and move on to the next baffling sliver of life in china. im sure you'll agree that they are endless.

[Seth]

It could revolve around an unfamiliarity with 'a socialist market economy with Chinese characteristics' (IE capitalism) that is developing. My last school had no clue about money management and investment and has since gone downhill. The principal tried to remedy the situation by making rediculous demands on the teachers, such as making them stand up the entire day. Especially in smaller places where guanxi is very important. I try to explain to some Chinese that guanxi isn't such a great thing, as instead of getting competent people in important positions you'll get drinking buddies and relatives. The headmaster of my last school was the cousin of the owner, and he really had no clue about anything and was a smug and unfriendly man. Chinese authority is absolute, so nobody criticized his lack of foresight.
Lack of skill, responsibility, organization, ethics, and overused guanxi doesn't bode well with market competition. Western countries have decades of market theory and education, it's still quite new in China.

[arioch36]

I find it strange that you run into these problems. I live in Henan, not exactly a rich province. 20 yuan for a 3 yuan ice cream would not be a problem. Giving 50 or 100 for a 3 yuan ice cream would be considered inconsiderate. Correct change is greatly appreciated, though.
I agrre, many Chinese do not think things out, or plan well, especially when it comes to work/money etc. I don't know if it is so much a Chinese thing. Maybe partly, but also a large part of it is that for many of them, from the tradition of state-run businesses, doing things in an intelligent or innovative way has no personal reward.
I went to buy a portable CD player. Big store, not expenmsive, everyone selling mostly the same thing. Most of the workers just rested their heads on the counter, not caring whether they had customers.

[taiwan boy]

I agree it is a problem in some places in China, but if you think it's bad in China try going to India

[MW]

Try working out the current exchange rate of 1 rmb to US$8 or was that
8 rmb to US$1?

I am not a math major but it looks like about 1 rmb = US$.12 (12 cents)

1 yi jiao = 1.2 penny

Now who is complaining that they got ripped off for 1.2 penny or even 12 pennies or more?

Be a little circumspect please. If you get ripped off for so little, you may appreciate it more when you consider how much you get ripped off every day back home with taxes on everything from gas, medecin, wages, land, etc.

Hey - if they steal pennies from you, maybe they just need it a little more than you do anyway. Lighten up! You blow more than that on junk food, smokes or drinks while they use it to put foo don the table. It is never enough to heat their home in winter.

Have you worked in a school during winter where there is no heat and the student's fingers are so cold they can not write? I have and no one should ever go to war with these tough survivors.

[Egas]

MW,

You misunderstood the post. I make no refernce to being ripped off. It is just about poor organisation and management in small business in China, which I see as a function of culture and education.

[MW]

I understod your post. Too bad that you do not realize when you are being ripped off and why.

When I came to China in 1978 my mentor advised me that flexible people do not break and that nothing is as it seems.

Through your western eyes you think these people are disorganized, do not plan well and are too stupid.

On the other hand they believe they are rather clever to rip off a few jaio by not having change and playing into people's impatience.

Just guess it depends on your perspective.

A taxi driver in Shanghai can expertly roll his wheels ahead a few feet after you say stop and get another rmb out of it. At the ned of the day, he has added 400 rmb to his daily take. Not having proper change adds another 200 - 300 rmb. And you think they are stupid?

I have a different take on that.

[Egas]

MW,

It is you, not I that is calling people "stupid". Your implying that I am stupid not to see that people are ripping me off cotradicts your previous post, where you said I was being petty for believing that people were ripping me off a few Moa or Kwai here and there. Your subsequent post shows quite clearly that you yourself believe that people such as Taxi drivers rip you off. Thus your perception that I was complaining for being ripped off was simply a case of transference, to use psychological terminology. You were just seeing something about yourself, and assuming that I am like that.

I repeat at no time have I stated or implied that I believe these people were ripping me off. I know the guy in the gym personally, and although he is is very, very slow and inefficient at what he does, I actually like him. I know a decent person from a petty crook. Inefficiency and disorganisation are rife at every level of Chinese society, even in transactions that involve no profit, or no cash. That some Chinese people lie and cheat regarding financial transactions is beside the point. This is not what this post is about. May I suggest you stop labelling others (including myself) stupid and greedy, and get on with the actual topic at hand, if you should wish to make a further contribution.

[wOZfromOZ]

E Gas has got it right here. I've seen it since I first came here in 1977. MW,
I cant see you having the professed level of understanding you tout in your post mate! ...an old hand!....Sorry!

wOZfromOZ

[smarts]

neighbourhood where I live used to have a couple of big food markets and you could go there and and bargain the price and, once the price was settled, the actual transaction of handing over cash and getting change was usually quite quick and smooth.

now the markets are gone and are replaced by supermarkets. Result being, seemingly endless waiting time standing in a checkout line, while the checkout operater quizes the customer on if they have the correct change or not. Often followed by a frustrating search through pockets and what not, just to find that extra 5 jiao.....the whole process becomes unnecessarily long. It seems to me, as an observer, to become like some sort of bargaining or negotiation for change or something......in the meantime everyone just waits and waits for their turn

considering the chekout has lots of cash in their register already, why dont they just accept the cusomer's payment and give change in return, the process would be faster and simplier.

i dont think it is for lack of cash in the register, and also the change is easy to work out as the cash register is the calcualtor......

is it becuase the cash register operator is somehow afriad to be cheated and given fake money (such as fake 50's or 100's)???
or is it capitalism with chinese charateristcs?
or maybe its just me??

also noticed the lack of 1 yuan coins in Beijing?..seems that Beijingers dont like to carry coins...

[Freaky Deaky]

I live in Shanghai and rarely get trouble getting change. I just take issue with the way it's given to me. Go to Lawsons, buy your beer, politely hand over your cash and the wait while the monkey behind the counter chucks your change all over the counter. Then, you've got to be quick to pick it up, as the people behind you who seemingly have no understanding of what a queue might be try to push you out the way. Bloody hell! It gets right on my nerves...