Job Discussion Forums

taiwazza · Joined: 11 Sep 2004 Posts: 4

Hi All,

Recently got nabbed at Kindergarten by the foreign police, taken to police station and questioned as to why I was there. My manager informed me I was 'watching a class' so that is what my statement to the police said. My registered bushiban is not at the same place as the kindergarten I was teaching...sorry watching a class when I was apprehended.

Does anyone have any idea what will happen from here? I work for a major company and they say all will be OK but I'm not feeling great about the whole situation. Can I get deported? I hope not. Any advice would be appreciated,

Thanks in advance Shocked

colin · Joined: 14 Apr 2003 Posts: 45 Location: You mean right now?

It's ok Aristole,I got this one.

Depends,maybe your boss will work things out and greese a few palms.Chances are that you be sent packing your bags.Prepare for the worst.
Sorry to hear of your misfortune.Good luck with that.

taiwazza · Joined: 11 Sep 2004 Posts: 4

Colin,

Thanks for the reply. Didn't like it though! Can I ask how you know that I could be in trouble? Do you have experience with someone who has been in a similar position?

Just to clarify exactly what happened. I was taken to the Foreign Police office, the manager of my Kindergarten came with me and another foreign teacher. My head office sent a representative to the police station and she nodded, shook her head etc when the cop asked me the questions. I then signed my statement after having it translated by my manager and Head Office Representative.

As I said before I have been told not to worry and that money/fines that need to be paid will be paid to the right people. However in saying that I have been teaching here for over 3 years and this is the first time I've run into this sort of trouble.

Any further advice would be greatly appreciated.

markholmes · Joined: 21 Jun 2004 Posts: 661 Location: Wengehua

Were you one of the teachers working for Kojen in Shilin?

Mr Ho knows every man and his dog. I don't think you'll be deported, but kepp a bag packed anyway.

Keep us posted.

TaoyuanSteve · Joined: 05 Feb 2003 Posts: 1028 Location: Taoyuan

Have you heard of www.forumosa.com ? They have forums on legal matters and a much larger and diverse group of people, from many walks of life, contributing. I think you might be able to get more answers as to what will happen and where you go from here.

Aristotle · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1388 Location: Taiwan

Make a visa run.
New passport, new visa before they tag your old one.
Good luck,
A.

Fortigurn · Joined: 29 Oct 2003 Posts: 390

wombat · Joined: 18 Jun 2004 Posts: 134

Sorry to hear about your problem, but to be honest I really don�t think you need be overly worried about things.

From my understanding, you have an ARC with the company that you were caught working for, but you were caught working in the kindergarten department of that company. To my knowledge no one has ever been deported for working in a kindergarten, provided that they had an ARC to teach English here in Taiwan. I invite anyone who can provide evidence otherwise to do so, but ask that such replies be kept to first hand accounts only.

By all accounts, the worst is already over. The prospect of being interviewed by the police is a rather daunting one, and I agree with Fortigrun that it is unfortunate that some employers place unsuspecting workers in this position. What seems to happen generally is that the foreigner gets a good dressing down, you are required to sign a statement, receive a warning, and then are free to go. The school will no doubt pay a fine for employing you, but that is merely part of running a preschool English program here in Taiwan.

There doesn�t seem to be any real effort behind such raids by the police. They are most likely undertaken out of a need to satisfy a complaint that was received by the police, and most likely made by a competitor. Don�t worry too much. While I cannot promise that the above is what will happen, from all of the accounts available from previous foreigners in your situation, this is exactly what happens.

Fortigurn · Joined: 29 Oct 2003 Posts: 390

But wombat, what confuses me is how Kojen and Hess and the others manage to keep running. If what they are doing is illegal, and everyone knows it, then how can they possibly conduct their huge advertising campaigns, sign up hundreds of students, all in the full view of the public eye?

The average man on the street knows that Kojen is running an English preschool for local kids, so how is it possible that the government doesn't know? And if the government does know, then why do they permit Kojen to continue?

None of this makes any sense. But I'm learning that this is what Taiwan is all about.

taiwazza · Joined: 11 Sep 2004 Posts: 4

Wombat and Co.

Thanks to all that have replied, especially Wombat, that advice sounds to be about what I have recieved from others in the know. I will keep you all informed as to what happens from here but it seems like the worst is over and I should be fine.

I also find it very strange that big companies like HESS and Kojen can operate illegally the way they do, but it seems that there is a lot of grey are here and that is just a fact of life for the foreign teacher.

Thanks to all again, my advice, run fast if the secretary says 'the govt is here' - you'll save yourself some stress.

Peace be with you all.

Taylor · Joined: 24 Oct 2003 Posts: 384 Location: Texas/Taiwan

Dear Readers,

As you know, the silly legislators keep changing the rules and regulations regarding the legality of foreigners teaching in kindergartens. This happens all the time when government gets its sticky, clumsy fingers involved in the affairs of business and private lives of the citizenry.

Think of an interstate highway in America. People routinely drive over 90 mph....which is obviously "illegal." Of course, the police and highway patrol know about it. Ultimately, a laissez-faire system is the best. If you drive 90 mph, you might die.

As for Taiwan, bribes and 'connections' are the most obvious explanation for how these businesses continue. Also, the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.

Best wishes to all!!!

Taylor

wombat · Joined: 18 Jun 2004 Posts: 134

I don't subscribe to the paying of bribes etc... Sure this goes on. But I don't believe that the whole industry of teaching English to kindergarten kids is based around government officials getting bribes.

senor boogie woogie · Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 12:45 pm Post subject:

Hola!

I can see it now, they dragged your ass off and put you into interrogation room A.

Cop 1- (in Chinglish) "You teach a babies Englishee?"

You- "No."

(slapped in the back with a rubber stick)

You-OW!

Cop 2- "Why you have Seseme Street book in bag?"

You-"Light reading?"

(Hit on the head with Seseme Street book) WHACK!

You-Ow!

Cop 1-"You like Teletubbies?"

You-"I hate Teletubbies!"

Cop 1-"My kid love Teletubbies." Cop 2-"Me kid too."

(Hit on the head with both Seseme Street book and rubber stick)

You-Ow! Double OW!

Cop 1 -Sing me ABC song!

You-Huh?

Cop 1 "Sing ABC song or die!"

(Cop 2 ready to beat your Canadian head in with that rubber stick.....)

You- "'A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z , X Y Z now you see, now I know my ABCs' now please, no more rubber stick.

Cop 1-"You guilty!"

Cop 2 -Whack! Whack! Whack!

You - "Ow! Ah! You *beep*!"

Cop 1 to Cop 2- "I hope you have money to go home punk! Take this filthy criminal back to his cell."

Senor

Fortigurn · Joined: 29 Oct 2003 Posts: 390

Aristotle · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1388 Location: Taiwan

The Police on Taiwan do not hit prisoners. They use Tasers or electric shock to extract confessions.
In this case they don't need a confession because you are guilty until someone bribes the cops/officials to declare you not guilty. It has nothing to do with what you did or can do. You are a foreigner and have no rights or say in your case.
They only thing that can be counted on is the laziness of the police. If this incident was initiated to secure bribes then once you pick up and go nobody gets paid. For that same reason you will no be deported because you have already left. The last thing the local cops want you to do is pick up and go. They cannot stop you from leaving the country without charging you with an offense. If they charge you with an offense then the local cops/ officials lose control of your case to the judiciary or the CLA depending on the offense.
If they charge you with illegally teaching kindergartens English there is a very good chance you will contact someone to help you out and the case gets a legal challenge in court. A public ruling by the judiciary on a blatantly racist and corrupt decree by the Ministry of Education is not something anyone in the government wants to see right before an election.
You have three choices.
1. Pick up and leave. Your work visa will be eventually canceled and you can avoid all the visa hassles by getting a new passport and tourist visa. The local FAP isn't going to charge you and file all that paperwork without even the slightest chance of getting some cash out of it.
2. Go down to the local FAP and demand information about your case. If you choose this route I will be more than happy to get a reporter and lawyer to go with you. If they give you the "I don't know answer" insist that they charge you so you can take the case to court and before the public.
3. Do nothing and hope it all goes away by itself.
Good luck,
A.