Job Discussion Forums

[yuly333]

�Hola! I am currently a Spanish teacher here in the US. I would like to improve my Spanish by going to Mexico and teaching English. Do you all think that teaching English for 30 hours a week will prevent me from learning as much Spanish as I hope to? I mean, I have studied abroad and lived with Spanish'speaking families while in college and I learn a ton of Spanish since I never spoke any English. I am just afraid that being around English all the time will hurt me. I will look for a Mexican family and make Mexican friends, so at least I will have a lot of interaction out of school. Also, how is the classroom discipline issue in Mexico? Here in the US kids are just out of control. It is ridiculous! I have taught in two schools so far in the US (one urban and one rural) and I know that this is not what I want even though I love the teaching aspect. I would like to go into college teaching here in the US and go to grad school after living in Mexico. Is classroom management an issue in Mexico? When I was working on my TEFL certificate I only remember one class that seemed like a problem, but they were adolescent boys and it was really nothing compared to what I saw at my last school I was at in the US. But, maybe in middle or high schools in Mexico there might be a problem. Or maybe I am paranoid. Do you all think it is better to work at an English language institute or a colegio/prepa? Thanks in advance for your replies.

[ls650]

1) If you are teaching 30 (!) hours a week PLUS prep time, it will certainly cut into your time for studying Spanish.

2) I teach at the university level and find the students to be extremely respectful and well-behaved. I'm not sure if that is the norm...

3) Not at my school.

[yuly333]

Thanks for your response. About how many hours do most ESL teachers teach in Mexico. I would like to have time to enjoy Mexico, not teach and prepare lessons. Here, it seems like a never-ending process.

[saraswati]

How many hours you teach is really up to you, but if you plan to live on what you earn, then you're looking at a full time position. And yes, working 30+ hours will most definitely cut into your Spanish immersion time.

Class management depends on the age group. In private ESL institutes, teens are sometimes inattentive but hardly ever "out of control." Kids, on the other hand, may become difficult if the teacher doesn't keep them interested and on-task.

[moonraven]

In response to your concern about teaching English affecting your Spanish: I would have to say that in my case it does. I find that when I am teaching English my spoken Spanish deterioriates--even though I have the habit of reading one book a day in Spanish (or a stack of magazines) plus the newspaper, and am always writing on a theater piece or a book in Spanish. This summer I have been teaching a course in Spanish that I designed for incoming university students about Learning Strategies, and I do see a difference when English is not creating static on the channels.

Discipline issues--I have taught in several settings here:

1. Language school (4 years)--usually there are not discipline problems, but some schools run summer kids' programs that can push the envelope--in the school where I was director I instituted the practice of using kids who had finished the TOEFL program as volunteer teachers' aides, and that worked great.

2. Junior High School (3 years, 4 different private schools)--this is the environment with the most challenges to classroom management. If you don't like having to ride herd on the kids at first so they know you aren't going to let them get away with very much, I suggest you avoid this level. It's my personal favorite--no, I am not a masochist--I just really appreciate ENERGETIC students. I have seen teachers ground into hamburger meat rapidly by this age group, but overall they have been the best students I have had and I have had more fun with them, too.

3. High School (6 months) is a lot like junior high but with less energy--especially since most of it goes toward the opposite sex.

4. University (3 years here in Mexico)--Students are mostly motivated, and I have had no issues of classroom management--although I have been told by other profs that they have had problems--but students are less energetic. I find I have to kick them in the pants sometimes, where junior high students only need a few road signs to guide them as they blast ahead.

The problem of teaching hours can be severe in the first 3 environments. In language schools 30 hours is about the minimum you need inorder to survive financially. Full time gigs in elementary, junior high and high schools usually require between 24 and 30 classes per week (and several different preps in the last two). Universities usually require fewer teaching hours from full time teachers--I taught 10 hours a week last semester, but am currently teaching 15 (but I volunteered for that in order to have many victims for the course I am piloting.)

[Ben Round de Bloc]

I can only speak for the part of the country where I live and teach. Things may be quite different in other areas of the country.

Here it would be very difficult to make ends meet financially if working less than 30 hours per week. With that many hours of teaching plus planning and preparing lessons, it doesn't leave a lot of "free" time to devote to other things such as really developing your Spanish on a regular basis.

I don't think you'd find students to be nearly as rowdy, violent, and aggressive in most Mexican schools as they are in many public schools in the USA. However, in my opinion young people here are about 4 or 5 years behind their U.S. counterparts when it comes to maturity. Classroom management problems with Mexican students tend to focus on things associated with being overly chatty/talkative/social with classmates.

I teach in a university EFL program that is open to students from high school on up. (They must have completed secundaria or be at least 18 years old.) This semester the age range of my students is 15 to 45+ with the majority between 20 and 25 years old. A big part of our program, which is quite student-centered, focuses on helping students to become autonomous learners. Since most of their previous educational experience has been in very teacher-centered situations, it does take a while for some of our new students to adjust to a different approach. I must say that with appropriate guidance, most of them take to a student-centered approach quite well and seem to enjoy it a lot.

[magpie]

I taught both junior high and high school in the States. Because these were public schools there was little, and in some cases no, administrative back-up to classroom discipline. In Texas, state law mandates students cannot be removed from class for more than one day for discipline--ok, that's supposed to be minor discipline, but I had a 230 lb football player intentionally push me out of the way to get out of class when the bell rang and he was returned to me a day later.

Here in Mexico I teach students between 8 and adult in a private school. I work 32 hours a week and I agree that if you want to study Spanish you will not have a lot of time to travel around. You can, certainly, immerse yourself in the local culture and practice your Spanish, though. I use VERY little Spanish in my classes and, again Moonraven is correct, it will lessen your use and practice of the language as you will be using English during your work day. Teaching at least 28-30 would be the minimum I would consider to live comfortably here. If you have money of your own, of course, you could teach part-time or give private lessons and then have more time to work on your Spanish.

I agree with Moonraven on the energy of junior high students--you will love it or hate it! I happen to adore my class of 11 and 12 year old BOYS--I NEVER thought I would say that! They are always on time, prepared, eager beyond words to learn. Apparently, some of them were a problem for a previous teacher--I'm not sure why. I think if you keep them active, have them work together, praise them alot, and get them to channel the energy into productive activities you'll be fine.

"Teens are sometimes inattentive but hardly ever 'out of control.'" YES! My teen students are in many other extracurricular activities and English often falls to the bottom, especially behind sports. The girls are very chatty, the boys tired. BUT, there is NO comparison to the behavior of them compared to the teens in the states. They are well-mannered and respectful--there is no "sass", and if you establish classroom rules at the start, you have little problems. Homework, that's another issue. They don't all do it--even the best students. I try not to give too much, but they understand, when I do give an assignment I expect it to be done.

Lastly, some of my teens are taking English not because they want to learn, but because their parents want them to learn. Some of them also come from quite wealthy families and are just plain lazy as they don't have to ever work for anything. This, like anywhere, means they are less than enthusiastic. These students are often VERY late for class and seldom participate to any degree or have their assignments done. I keep notes in my gradebook regarding these problems and copies of their work--which, when done, is usually poor. Just like in the US, CYA-if the parents want to know why their angel isn't doing well, you will have documentation.

[yuly333]

Thanks for all of your replies. I was teaching in HS and now I am in middle school. I like middle school so much better than high school. The kids are enthusiastic and love to participate. I'm just sick of the bad attitudes and the disrespect. At least my middle school kids aren't saying F*** You everytime I tell them what to do. But they are still disrespectful. They were so out of control when I had a substitute the other day that she had to call the assistant principal to come talk to the class. I explained to them that they are representatives of their school and community and how they act determines how visitors will perceive students in that school or people in the community. Then I asked them whether they cared about what visitors thought of them and their school and they said "no." I know they meant it. Then, when they found out they were going to have to take chorus on Monday with a teacher who is a homosexual they complained and said they were going to give him hell. I was infuriated! Two of my classes said they were going to give him hell. I love teaching but teaching here in the US is not for me. Maybe I should just try to save up my money and apply for some scholarships to study abroad. I plan on getting a masters in Spanish so maybe there are opportunities for it that way. I just prefer to support myself and not be in the hole when I return to US after studying in Mexico. That's why I figured that teaching in Mexico would be better for me. With all of that being said. What is it like teaching in a colegio or a prepa. Is it just like here where you have tons of lessons to write, tons of parents to contact, tons of meetings to attend, clubs to sponser, no back up from administration, while expected to be perfect from day one, even if you are a new teacher. The kids and parents have ALL the rights while you have none! A kid can hit a teacher and be suspended for a couple of days or get ISS meanwhile if a teacher were to hit a student (or were accused) he/she would be fired in a heartbeat! At my last school, which was in a big urban school system, the kids were so mean. I would follow all of the steps for discipline and then eventually write an office referral. As soon as they would talk to the principal, they would lie and say that I was picking on them and the principals believed the kids over me, even though I had documentation. We had 10 administrators and only about two had a backbone. Ugh! Sorry about the rant! I love teaching, just not in situations like this. Again, thanks for your replies.

[moonraven]

I can't speak for all the private schools in Mexico--there have been a few horror studies on this forum about Colegio Madison, and some other schools--try checking the threads for the last 3 to 6 months.

Every school is different. Some schools are very good about backing up the teachers. But some have principals who are also working as teachers in other schools and they are exhausted and incapable of imposing discipline. Some school have "orientadores" or discipline administrators who are supposed to take care of that.

The Secretary of Public Education doesn't allow you to throw a kid out of class, but I have had kids who were acting out because of family problems spend some days working in the library, the music room, etc. while they got their heads together. When I teach junior high I tend to spend as much time as I can meeting with parents, as none of us were born with parenting skills and they can use all the help they can get. The parents appreciate it--and actually, so do the kids.

Case in point . 4 years ago I was teaching in a private school in Saltillo, Coahuila. I had 3 kids from one family: 1 boy in the 9th grade and twins (boy and girl) in two different 7th grade groups. The 9th grader was an intense student who worked very hard, but had fun doing it (I remember him grabbing me in one of the debate breaks when we hosted about 8 other junior high schools from around the country for a model United Nations event and crying his eyes out because nobody in his committee would accept his proposal for a free and independent Palestinian state), the 7th grade girl was pretty quiet and the boy was Attention Deficit Disorder (very bright, did a lot of good work for me--probably because I was also ADD and could relate to him).

Right before the spring vacation all three kids from night to morning began to act out in all their classes. Not one of them would tell me what was going on at home, and in a few weeks the 9th grader had recovered his balance, but the twins were out of control. I told the 7th grade boy I was going to have to call in his mom, and he said he thought that would be a good idea. I called in their mother, and told her the twins weren't going to pass their exams if they didn't get a grip and that I had seen the problem since X--a specific date. She said that was the day after their father lost his job--and that he had been putting a lot of pressure on them at home to read things he wanted them to read, etc. I told her to please tell him to back off, and that if he wanted to talk with me he should come in to the school. The kids calmed down, and their father showed up a week or two later at the end of the school day, and asked if he could give me a ride home. On the way we talked primarily about politics, but he also thanked me for the attention I had given the kids--especially to the 7th grade boy since they now didn't have money for him to continue with the therapist for ADD.

One thing about a lot of the private schools is that they can become dumping grounds for kids who have been expelled from other schools--those schools can be pretty bad when they start to collect a critical mass of kids like that. The first junior high I worked in here had one 16 year old boy in the 7th grade who had been booted out of about 6 other schools. For some reason he loved me, and he bragged that he only worked in my class. For several years I used to run into him at bars and discos and he would give me the latest list of the schols that had expelled him (new schools open here all the time.)

In short, it's the luck of the draw, but if you really care about kids and their learning, they get the message and they very seldom act out in your classes--which doesn't stop them from giving other teachers hell, however. At the end of one junior high school year the Spanish teacher approached me and said "You really know how to deal with adolescents". I said, "That's because I remember what it's like to be an adolescent."