Job Discussion Forums

[kev7161]

Okay, so here I am at my "posh" private school, a little over a month into the term. I have about 300 students at three levels (Senior One, Two, and Three) in 10 different classes. Overall, I would say about 80% of the students are well behaved and at least 1/2 or better are studious and seem to be "getting" the English. But, naturally, there are few problems. So, please take a moment and read the following, then tell me . . . What Would You Do?

1. My classroom is rather small; we are quite packed in there (my biggest class consists of 32 students).

2. I have those few (mostly boys) that love to sit in the back row and chit-chat and sometimes sleep and certainly don't participate in the class activities. They distract me and the other students.

3. After the first class, several boys didn't return to class (no big loss).

4. So, I have kicked out about a dozen boys (or so) from my class. I've told them they can sleep and/or talk in their own classrooms. The boys that haven't shown up I've just marked off my rosters.

5. Now, the director is telling me I can't keep students from attending my class. I asked for a meeting about two weeks ago with the director, the head teachers of each class, and the Chinese English teachers so we can talk about discipline procedures and go over what my options are. It seems this is too difficult to organize a 30 minute meeting. Nevermind the fact that yesterday they managed to gather all the Senior kids and all the teachers together for a big, mass meeting. I wasn't even told about it. Seems like this would have been an ideal time for me to take the floor for a few minutes and go over my requirements so ALL could hear (also, there was an evening meeting for all teachers last night - - why not invite the FT so he could speak about his problems for a few minutes?)

The biggest problem is that I can't speak Chinese and these lazy lunkhead students don't understand even a little bit of English. So, it's not like I can have a "talk" with them outside the class and get them to shape up. My best course of action is to remove them from the class.

6. One of my biggest rules was "No note, no class" meaning if a student were to miss a class, he must have a written and signed excuse to get back into class. Most students comply with this - - a few seem to always "forget".

So, is this a battle I cannot win? Is it worth fighting for? If my classroom was a huge, cavernous one (like I had last term) then I would be more than happy to put the losers way in the back and forget about them, but that's just not doable where I am now. I'm happy to let them return to class if they want to at least "pretend" they are learning, but it's really not fair to the other students if I let them sleep or carry on while the others are trying to learn. And, let it be known, there are some students I have that have a very low English capability, but they are there every day with books open and watching and (seemingly) listening . . . you know, TRYING.

What Would You Do?

[laodeng]

Briefly, it's a battle that you cannot win. Your "school" (the quotation marks are deliberate) regards these miscreants not as students but rather as customers. It's a business pure and simple. Well, not so pure, but I'm sure that you get my drift.

[Roger]

I concur with laodeng.

It seems you have been hired as a figurehead - the English-only talking head; you are the icing on the cake, and the students are free to choose whether they eat you.

It shows how little English is respected, and how little this subject is taken seriously.

My advice: be strict with their attendance! Make roll-calls every time. It takes several minutes of your lesson - accept this break! Those who have not excuse (written note with a stamp from the administration!) won't be excused, and you report them to the administration!

In future, lay down the rules in lesson 1. But don't pamper them by doing extra work in the form of composing a largeish essay; rather dictate the rules to them, then collect their notes and correct their mistakes and have them re-write them.
This way, they will really learn the basics!

Some of the rules you must inculcate in them:
- Students must take notes of new items yteach them - not expect you to hand out photocopies.

- They must have a written excuse for any absence, which must be stamped (approved of) by the administration!


- They have to put their names in roman script ON THE TOP of their writing; their name plus their student number!!! Teach them what a "full name" is - in their case, it is ENGLISH NAME, CHINESE SURNAME PLUS CHINESE GIVEN NAME. Always in the same order!

- They have to earn their grades!

_ Talking in Chinese during the lesson is punishable!

Invent some rules of your own as you deem fit!

[Kurochan]

Whenever you see a kid talking in class, call on him to stand up and read from the book. I did that once as a deterrant, and it ended up, to my surprise, really improving the kid's English.

[latefordinner]

Kurochan:
When, as often happens, I get students talking while one student answers a question, I pick on one and ask that student what the other person said. When he/she doesn't know, I make an example and chuck him out of class for a while. If you don't know what the other person said, you're not listening. If you're not listening, you're not learning. Get out. The example is clearer than any words that I could speak.

Roger: Strong advice, but you're preaching to the choir.

Kev: Aren't we revisiting the "Does My School Even Care?" thread? Holy "Deja Vu All Over Again", Batman! Do you expect a different answer this time? Well at risk of repeating the obvious, no they don't. Or rather, there are things that they care more about than education. At (or near)the top of the list is control. They don't want to legitimise your foreign rules and regs, in case they end up having to do something to uphold rules that aren't their own. They will cut you off at the knees rather than admit that anything is wrong or out of their control. I try to get around this by identifying the Chinese teachers who teach the same classes and working with them directly. Sometimes this works, but often I get bogged down in, "I have to ask my leader first". FWIW, this is one of the measuring sticks by which I assess the professionalism of the Chinese teacher. A good teacher is confident, takes responsibility for his/her class and does what seems best, then asks permission. Yes, that's a very foreign yardstick to hold, but it works for me.

[quanxie]

After teaching for 9+ years in the US university system, my first year here was a real shock... But now, I have heeded the advice of my good friend who taught here for 2 years in 94'-95'. He said "Phil don't expect to be a teacher in China, just relax and try to have fun with your students". After all if we say they are not folowing our ways of classroom behavior, isn't that saying we are not learning from theirs'... I consider my class a break from their daily routine in a Chinese school system...

Phil

[burnsie]

[Antaraaaa]

"Relax, take it easy, allow your students to enjoy a needed break from the chinese school grind"



How happy I am to have heeded this advice almost immediately upon beginning life as a teacher in China. I have not had a bad class since I started really (over 4 months now ) and I believe it's due mainly to catching on to this "vibe".

We can only do what we can do. I feel that allowing my over(home)worked (I have 9 year olds that cry about how much homework they have!), overparented and overschooled kids to have a space where they can "chill", talk about their lives and thoughts and feelings (in as much English as possible, lol) and still learn some new things from the "foreigner" is most likely one of the most precious things I can do.

I am finding that just being genuinely interested in their lives causes the domino effect of them wanting to listen to me. I have the sleepers in a couple of classes, and yes, it's annoying, but I try to regard it as a challenge to me to find things they like ie: music, etc. I realize that I am pretty new, and I still have much to learn. However, time doesn't seem to be a factor in some cases. I just spent my holiday with a teacher who has been here over 2 years, and she still can't seem to "get" this context. I think she may have a stroke with all the worrying she does . Seems to me it's really a case of her wanting to feel she has an "important" job....like, if she spends enough time fretting and freaking about her students and all the school-related crap, it somehow justifies her teaching here as a "real" job. I couldn't disagree more......I think the job remains just as important (unimportant? ) without all the drama attached.

I belong to a fellowship wherein we have a Rule # 62 that MUST be in effect at all times: seems to me it fits my job here to a "T"

Don't take yerself too f$%^*n seriously



Ant

[joe greene]

Thank god! Reading this thread was like taking a breath of fresh air. Antaraaaa, quanxie, et al., thank you thank you thank you for being honest.

[kev7161]

Kev: Aren't we revisiting the "Does My School Even Care?" thread?

To a certain degree, yes. But it has progressed beyond that to "Does My School Even Keep Track of their Wandering Students?" And the answer is a big, fat NO!

Yesterday, I went to talk to my FAO about the problem/situation. I told him that, when the director calls him yet again to ask why all the students aren't coming to my class, to not blame me. It's no longer MY problem, rather it's the school's problem.

Today I was told to make a list of all the students who are missing and/or whom I've kicked out of my classes and I said I'll get to it when I can. In other words, I can't be bothered with it. "They" said they will take care of it (without my presence or input). Quite frankly, I'm happy these certain students are not in my classes. I still have a half dozen or so that can join them (but I'll control myself).

The thing is, I love to teach and I really enjoy a large portion of my students. We DO play games and listen to music and watch DVDs (thank you) but we also have real, honest-to-goodness English lessons thrown in there as well. God, what a horrible teacher I must be to actually want to influence these kids' potential grasp of the english language!

So, I will continue to enforce the rules I established at the beginning of the term. Students who don't comply will still not be allowed into the class. Will I lose my job over this? Perhaps it will come to that at some point. I'll just pack my bags and head on home, no big loss. But, while I'm here, I'm going to try and do the best job I can.

[go_ABs]

[deezy]

I think I'm going to show this thread to the rest of the teachers at my school. Get them to have more fun in class!

[peggiescott]

Hi Kevin,

I'm not sure what age you teach so this might not help, but I teach college students and it works in most of my classes. In all of my classes I call the group in the back "My Bad Boys" and acknowledge that they'd rather be out playing basketball than sitting in a room of 50-60 students. When they start getting too talkative I wander back and sing the theme from Cops (Bad boys, bad boys, whatcha gonna do when they come for you?). I'm a horrible singer, so it gets their attention and shuts them up. If the talking continues I make one of them sit in the middle of a group of girls, or come to the front of the class and help me give the lesson. If they refuse to move or come up front I clap and stomp my foot and the rest of the class follows until he finally gives in. It doesn't take too many days of class before I can shut them up with a look. But the truth is that I really prefer the students who show a little personality so some of my Bad Boys are also some of my favorites. And, surprisingly, a few are quite good at English (compared to the average student in the class).

I've only thrown a student out of my class once and it turned out to be very inappropriate because I'd misunderstood what was going on. I haven't done it since. I don't take role and honestly would just as soon have a student stay home as come to class and be bored and disruptive.

Peggie

[Roger]

I think I have read the "go with the flow" and "relax and have fun" kind of advice a number of times too often; either I give up on teaching English here, or these kids have to givbe up their hopes on actually learning some really practical skills!

I taught my 22-year olds how to write a CV, which is the first thing, I suppose they will need right after graduating from university. I asked them, do you remember how to write a CV? The answer from a few boys: "No!"
I left it at that, and wasn't fuming at all. But I picked on the first guy I saw reading a CHinese textbook on, yes, that's tthe irony of it: "Spoken English!" ("kouyu yingyu"...).

I dictad to them a cover letter; to my utter surprise, no one knew that they could find a job by perusing newspapersadverts!
They said - both a girl and a boy, independently of each other! - that they would go online with their computer "and find a job!" Hahaha!

Anyway, I dictated to them how to write their first job application letter. The whole class was scribbling. Then I picked a guy to read aloud his writing, and a girl, to copy it on the blackboard, so that the whle class could correct their own mistakes by checking what was on the blackboard.

The guy who had been reading "kouyu yingyu" had such a horrible pronunciation that the other chap at the blackboard couldn't understand any two words.
Well, we did pull it through to the hard end, and it was a steep learning curve for everybody, including myself.

Aren't these young people too much concerned with lapping up textbook contents, "learning knowledge" as they so quaintly put it, and not caring to think ahead and plan what they might be able to perform?

Maybe they should all go to some vocational school, learn how to sew their clothes, wash dishes, cook and write a diary back home.

Because if we don't teach them the really practical side of their "knowledge", they are never going to use it. I make them use whatever "knnowledge" they have - it's not a hell of a lot anyway!

[Ariadne]

I'm at a university teaching mostly 'remedial' students. Attendance is an enormous problem. I agree with the other poster who said the bad boys can be a lot of fun. So, I don't care if they haven't shown up in a week or more, I'm happy to see them when they do come to class. Some of my bad boys and girls have very good English skills, and some of them don't. I will only have an input into 20% of their grade.. attendance (10) and participation (10). I see no reason to tell them they can't come to class because they have missed a certain number of sessions. I turn in my attendance records so if someone is going to worry about it it's not going to be me. I guess I'm hoping that the students will pick up something along the way and I'll just keeping spreading crumbs around.