Job Discussion Forums

[audchiang]

My husband and I are trying to figure out how to move to China for a year or two with our two young kids (1 & 4). I'm Chinese American, he's half African American/half Native American, neither of us speaks Mandarin (I can have a very rudimentary conversation) very well, and while we both have degrees (I also have a Masters), neither of us have teaching credentials or have ever taught before...

OK, so here are some questions:

Is it possible to support a family of 4 on an English teacher's salary? We'd have to pay for tuition for my son to attend kindergarten/first grade at an international school.

Where are the best cities to be considering to raise an expat family?

Ideally, one of us would like to teach at a Kindergarten so we could get discounted tuition for my son - what do folks think of this, and are there different criteria for teaching at this level vs. elementary or adults?

Are there specific Kindergartens that people would recommend we look into?

That's it for now - any thoughts would be helpful as we start this research process.

[Guest]

I have only been here in China for 13 months, but my first thought is that you could survive financially if you had no (or few) commitments back home.

I earn the smallest salary here I think, which is only 3,500 r.m.b. (about $450 u.s. per month) however I do not have to pay for accommodation, electricity, gas, telephone, internet, and I can have free meals at the School canteen.

I could save 2,000 r.m.b. of that if I did not buy gifts for the children.

There is always a large demand for people willing to teach the younger children. I know at my School here, I taught Grades 1, 2 & 3 last year and it is very tiring for someone older like me, but it seems they are always looking out for teachers willing to teach the younger kids.

You would have no problem finding work here as there is always a huge demand.

I personally would encourage you to take the plunge - while you children are so young, as it may be much more difficult when they are older.

Best of luck

[Roger]

You will both have to work, lady!
Whether that is possible - what with racial profiling here! - is another matter; I for one am not claiming this is impossible. However, it would be sensible if you lived frugally enough so that you could always depend on just one breadwinner.

As for enrolling your kids at an INTERNATIONAL kindergarten, I say, you are not going to be able to afford that! By no stretch of my imagination!
You will be very lucky if you get jobs with an international school anyway! So, you might have to settle for a Chinese-run one. One that I think I can recommend is YEW CHUNG International Schools; it is operated from Hong Kong, and it also has branches in the merry old U.S.A. The owners are very Christian.

As for a purely mainland CHinese one - I don't know if you would want your kids to be put through their treadmill! Not my cup of tea, anyway, and I loved my job at a kindergarten well enough to last two years!

So, where? With your needs, I suggest Shenzhen (it has some amenities not readily found elsewhere due to its proximity to Hong Kong; also it has a fair number of kindergartens that cater to special needs for kids that will emigrate to Hong Kong); another location might be Guangzhou, or Shanghai, perhaps Peking.
Maybe Peter BOl's wife in Shenzhen could point you to somewhere... if anyone there sees this post!

[burnsie]

I agree with Rodger here also. You better both work.

Also be aware that there can be reverse racism for Chinese returning to China after a generation or two gap. Also Africans (actually being another colour other than white) there is racism also. There are many different races and nationalities here teaching so don't think that you won't get a job, it's just harder to find. If you go outside of the main centres then it should be easier. But as you both have American accents it will work in your favour.

I don't want to alarm you but this is the reality of China.

I would try and get positions before you leave, and at the same school to make it alot easier.

Besides this not have the language skills should not be a problem unless you go to some small town but that is unlikely. You will pick up some chinese once you arrive (or study a bit before coming).

I just wanted to paint a realistic picture for you and not get to China and find it difficult to get a job. You should not at least some of the pitfalls before you come.

Good luck in your search and if you want to know more let me know.

[Ludwig]

Of course, 'Rhonda Place' has children at international schools in China and so is fully aware of fees and is, herself, Chinese American and so has experienced all the prejudices the grim Mainland has to offer when it comes to the issue of gainful employment and race.

Returning to the real world, I am afraid the fees for international schools alone will be vastly more than any salary you could ever command on the Mainland, and, besides, very few employers would be willing to employ you as they will have no students willing to have you as a teacher (at least, not as a paid teacher).

[ahopfe]

I would say that your husband wouldnt find it too hard to find a job outside the main areas but i know that that the Kindergarten that i teach at frowns upon Chinese expats teaching English.

Not to put you down but thats the Truth.

The cost of tutition in for the babies is roughly 10,000RMB per year per child which as most people have said is more than what Would be able to command as a teacher I am only on RMB 3,500 and i have to pay for Electricty and Phone and food.

However i Know that one of the Canadaians here had there child in the Baby Garden( Kindergaten ) and it was supplied as part of the contract .

I am in Zhengzhou in Henan Province.

my sugguestion is that look for work outside the big cities and ask if the childrens tution can be covered as part of the contract.


Best of luck

[Yu]

I recently moved to China with my 3 year old son, and I noticed you mentioned 2 kids.

My husband is Chinese and I am a white faced American. We came to Shanghai.

The first thing we did was check out the schools for my son. We looked into the Chinese school run by my university first, and found that while it is discounted for the Chinese employees at the school, it is not discounted for foreign teachers. The school is about 400 a month for teachers, 1100 a month for foreign people. I generally get annoyed when they charger foreigners more, especially in this circumstance. I am an employee there... enough said.

So we went in search of a decent school. My husband visited several Chinese schools, and we decided it was not what we were looking for. We ended up at Shanghai Sunrise Montessori Preschool. It is 2800 RMB a month. I am making a whopping 3500 a month at my uni job. Rent is another 3000 a month (2000 of which plus 400 for utilities is also covered by my school). We chose to live off campus because the provided housing did not have a kitchen. Not an option for us. So right now my income can cover these two expenses. We still need to eat, and we want to enjoy the life in a city. My husband is still looking for a job. We planned for this to take him a few months. We will manage with money as we brought some of our savings to get us off the ground.

My son is having a little trouble adjusting to the Chinese food as well. Be sure you get the kids shots. Hep A is not usually given, and you will probably want them to get it.

The person who suggested you work for the same school had a good point. Consider where you would want to live in China as well. See what is avaliable. As for the race thing, it is an issue in China. It sucks, but it is what it is. You both have uni degrees... in what? No expereince teaching either. This is going to make it harder to find a job in a place like Shanghai I would suppose. It might also be possible to arrange schedules so one of you teaches on MWF and the other on TU TH if it is a uni, and you don't go everyday. This may allow you not to need the care.

Another thing to realize is that the teaching is not an easy job, especially if you don't have expereince. Typically there are 40 students in a class, and the classroom culture is very different from the US. (At least at my uni).

PM me if you think I can answer any more of your questions.

[Badtomatoe]

audchiang,

You should not have any problems getting by on only one income.

I agree with what Rhonda says, and I make less than her. I am in a smaller city in mainland China, and although we were told we would need more cash to get by, we are finding that we get along comfortably on one income. Yes we do have two small children as well. We don't live an extravagant life, but we do eat out more often here than back at home. We have opportunity to buy a few trinkets and other things every month as well.

The most expensive kindergarten in my town I believe is around 2900 rmb per term. My wife started teaching there part time, and she can take the kids with here while she teaches.

Your kids are at a good age to expereience life in China. Go for it. If you have any questions about anything in particular pm me for details.

You mention that neither of you have taught before. I encourage you to look into a short term TEFL/CELTA course to get this experience, you'll be glad you did once you arrive. Although this isn't always required by schools, it would benefit you, and set you apart from the backpackers just visiting.

Best wishes on your search.

[Syndrome057]

Notice how people talk about the education service provided by the schools here.....

Would you really want your darling children going to anything BUT an international kindergarten? In the big cities these kindergartens are VERY expensive (a sum I have heard is 38,000 a year......Shanghai).

Also, out in the "cheaper" areas you will definately suffer from discrimination. Your husband might find a reasonable job as a teacher but you are likely SOL. "Looking" Chinese and yet not being able to communicate in Chinese gives you both drawbacks from the eastern/western comparison. If your Chinese was perfect you could easily be a manager. I am sorry.

Best of luck,
Safari

[senor boogie woogie]

Hola!

Most Universities in China would snap up a Masters degree holder, and I don't think race will be much of an issue at all. This is the direction I would take for him.

In Hangzhou, we have blacks and Asian Indians teaching all levels of students.

Senor

[Yu]

I would not feel it necessary to send my kid to an international kindy. They are expensive, I suggest you to shop around for a suitable school when you get here.

[London Angel]

Speaking as a Black Brit with a degree in Chinese who has lived in a few cities in China, I think the fact your Chinese is limited will be a blessing in disguise - you would not be able to understand all the racist comments that will regularly come your way when walking around with your husband.
Also luckily, these are just comments - they do not come with an undercurrent of menace/ a threat of violence that might be the case if you were a black-white couple in the west.
As for employment, if you were in Beijing, finding a job for your husband would be LESS of a problem than for you. Chinese people are pragmatic. Native English speakers with masters degrees? Most welcome - if you actually DO want to teach English!
When it comes to schools, African born kids I encountered in Beijing (Haidian District) went to the local Chinese primary school (west gate area of the Language University) or to expensive French speaking international schools.
Wishing you very good luck.