Job Discussion Forums

[bigbadsuzie]

ı know someone else may have started this before, but, next month this country is expecting to get a green light for assencion talks based on the reforms it has made recently .
My question is ;

Do they deserve to be part of the E.U at any time in the future or are they just chasing a dream that will never come true?

ı have my own thoughts on this question ,but,I'm curious to see what others make of the thread.

[dmb]

The EU is a christian club. Most of Europe doesn't understand Turkey therefore they are frightened of it. Turkey will be the biggest country in Europe. Will Germany,France,UK give up their 'power'?
Unfortunately it's going to be a long time before Turkey gets in Europe. About as much chance as Scotland winning the world cup

[dervish]

Welllllllllllllllllllllll

Is it european like:
to have men and women seperated by gender on the bus
to not be able to go out after dark if you're a woman becasue everyone will think you're a *beep*
to have 60 kids in a classroom
to have a horrible sanitation problem
to have unclean fuels burning in the winter
to not be able to get a hotel room unless you have a marriage license
to have such a high illiteracy rate
to have an absolutely useless health department
to be so phobic about foreigners

Turkey seems to be caught between the two worlds. which is exactly what it is. I think it's to the EU's advantage actually to let Turkey in. It's almost like they need that buffer zone from the wacko governments of the ME. Turkey has a long, stable government, and it is rapidly changing. If only Turks could focus more on improving their situation, economically, and better law/rule enfocement. Muslim people can be quite progressive, hopefully Turkey can show the world just how so. I think the gulf countries are a good example, but they also fall back on 12th century, cultural practices sometimes. If the economy was better in Turkey, I think they could prove that you don't need terrorism, female clitorectomy, and arranged marriages just to show the world you're Muslim and different. Turks who immigrate out need to adapt an Israeli mentality.......you take what you earn and learn from other places and you give it back.

[calsimsek]

Come December Sink or Swim
Forget all the reasons for or against Turkey. We all know them, what we should do is look at it from how it will effect us. As one poster stated even if Turkey is given a green light; all it means is that the E.U will begin discussing when Turkey would become a full member. Most papers are saying anything from 2010 to 2015, during this time the E.U could still hold turkey back for any reason it wants.
Given all this crap, how is my life in Ist going to change after December.
As of last week the $ was going down. Then Zina and $ went up. So what do you think come Dec.

[luna]

[Otterman Ollie]

Hi
I think it would be naive in the extreme to expect Turkey to be given the green light into Europe within the next 25 years,there are too many long term problems that have'nt even been addressed yet .
When they take the zeros off their money starting in Jan of 2005 ( you mean you did'nt hear about that ) that will open up all manner of worm cans and their are too many people in Europe apart from the far right who really can't abide the Turks .
The country in the west looks and sounds European ,but,just scratch below the surface and the real face of the place is clear to see ..Go outside any city even for a short distance and you see that the people are just scraping by ,the further east you go the worse it gets ,no chance for this place sadly ,too big ,too ignorant and just too damn beaurocratic .
The best it will ever be is just a big buffer zone against all the crap in the middle east .

[dmb]

In the economist, dated 18th September there is an interesting article about this topic. Unfortunately if you want to read it online you have to subscribe. So if you want to read it then you have to buy it or subscibe.

[dervish]

DMB,

They won't allow you to do a copy and paste?

luna,

[ghost]

The Euro Club is imposing certain things on Turkey for Turkiye to become a part of the coveted club, and the Turkish Government is trying to implement everything that the Euro Club demands, more from necessity than conviction....in simple terms of course Turkey wants a piece of the rich Euro cake too.

Ironically, if Turkey does eventually become a part of Europe, most teachers will be worse off from a financial point of view, because everything will be more expensive (in line with Europe) and they will not be able to save as much as they do now.

We have seen conditions for EFL teachers go down drastically in countries like Greece and Spain where salaries (teacher) have not kept up with the cost of living in a Euro Europe, and most teachers in Spain and Greece are teaching for peanuts with almost no savings in hand. The same would be the case for Turkey.

Right now in Turkey, teachers who make around 1000 dollars a month can expect to save between 300-500 dollars a month, if they live sensible lifestyles. That is a pretty good figure, and ghost saved a lot too, in only 6 months domicile in the country.

Ghost is presently studying Human Resources Management at McGill University and teaching English as a Second Language for one of the language schools in Montreal. The pay for that job is $16 an hour, so it is true that ghost was better off in Turkey from a financial standpoint, but breaking point was reached over there as you all well know.

[gadfly]

Hi everybody, I am not gadfly , i am his Turk fiance ...i had to use his nick name with his permission to write my point of view about this topic .....sorry my english is not so perfect yet ....

I lived in Germany for three years ......so i want to give germany example cuz it is one of the powerfull EU member country ....all Europain countries try to give democrasy lesson to Turkey for years ....You all teachers do you ever feel yourself like you are allien when you were in turkey or unfriendly behaves .....but i felt when i was in Germany ....I have read so many news in newspapers in Germany how nazis burn the Turk�s stores there ...my brother in law studied university in England and became engineer but he couldn�t find good job like his English Engineers friends in England ....anyway shortly , most of Europain people are still racist.....and they give democracy lesson to Turkey isn`t it a bit ridiculous ?

dmb you are right ....Turkey can be most powerfull country in EU with young population, and with countries sources and as a bridge between asian and europain ...so france , germany , england etc don`t want to give up their power ......any Europain country don`t want power Turkey in middle east .....

Europa says that there is no rights for Kurds etc in Turkey ....ohh poor Kurds ...turkish government don`t send education enogh health care etc etc to east of Turkey right ?? but I grew when i listen the news on TV how many Turk idealist teachers or doctors or villages people was killed by the PKK Kurd terrorists in the east of Turkey ....then europain says ohh nooo human rights in Turkey ...ohh noo guys you can not enter EU .... but who sold the guns kalashnikofs etc to terrorist by now ? .....of course Germany, England ; USA etc isn`t it ridicilous too ? ......I am not racist my best friend is Kurd woman ....i am just tired to artificials problems that creates by Europa like Kurd Turk problem like viel problem etc... i mean shortly they really play good politics games in the Turkey ....

I can not tell you my country is perfect or my people are very very democrat in some ways .....yess zina must not be reason to enter jail according to my idea it must be just a reason to divorce ....but most of important percent of Turks are agree with me .....Unfortunatelly , a bit conservative politic party is in government right now and they try to make unfortunate laws but if you tell me Turkey is primative or not democrat i can advice you to look in racist Germany ....or live in one of the ( Democrat Humanist ) Europain countries ....

[dmb]

Dervish, I bought the paper copy. after reading it I tried to find the article online but found out it was subscription only.

gadfly hanim(hos gediniz) I think we, turks and turkophiles, like to think of Turkey as a bridge between east and west. But, sadly, you may be right that there is racism involved. turkey is seen as a buffer not a bridge in alot of quarters.

[gadfly]

Is it european like:
to have men and women seperated by gender on the bus
to not be able to go out after dark if you're a woman becasue everyone will think you're a *beep*
to have 60 kids in a classroom
to have a horrible sanitation problem
to have unclean fuels burning in the winter
to not be able to get a hotel room unless you have a marriage license
to have such a high illiteracy rate
to have an absolutely useless health department
to be so phobic about foreigners

1- to have men and women seperated by gender on the bus :

* you can not see the men and women sepereated by gender on the cities buses in the most of cities except some conservative cities maybe .....but i prefer to sit next the woman in long travels when i go to another city.....because i feel relax then as a lady

2- not to be able to go out after dark if you are a woman because everyone will think you are a " beep " :

* yess unfortunatelly nights are for men in whole world ...my sister lived in england three years and she told me most of english ladies went to bars alone in the night then the men rape them ..... it is so often in England ...so unfortunatelly, it is not only Turkey`s problem but it is whole world problem .....

3- to have 60 kids in a classroom :

4-to have a horrible sanitation problem and 5-fuels :

* yess unfortunatelly there are 60 kids in classrooms in government schools in Turkey ......if the money go to education health instead of army there would not be 60 kids in one classroom then ....if you read my ex letter you can understand the problems creates by europain countries to break peace in turkey if there was peace and safety in Turkey the money would not go to army that musch instead of education or health system etc

6-to not be able to get a hotel room unless you have a marriage license :

* yesss it is annoying for me too cuz i will not stay with my fiance in same otel soon till we find flat ...but i can understand the logic of this . There are three kind of otels in Turkey .....1-best qualities otels like 4 or 5 stars otels that they don`t ask marrige licience 2- middle class family otels that they want marrige licence 3- very cheap and dirty otels that they don`t ask marrige licence .....so if i have kids and have to stay in a otel i would select family otels that they want marrige license because i don`t want my kids to see transeksuels or whores or drunks , nonsence people and this atmosphere ....i am sure you would not want this too if you are dad .....if i was a man and want sex with my nice gf i would select 4 or5 star otel that some don`t ask marrige licence but if i select to make sex with a whoore then you would go to 3th class otel too ....

7- to be so phobic about foreigners :

* i didin`t understand what you mean excatly but we turk reallylike foreigners too much in turkey most of my foreign friends said that after i come to turkey to make holiday i decided that i will come to turkey for holiday next year again cuz of hot and friendly behaves .....my fiance is Canadian and some of my friends got marry with foreigners too so we don�t have phobia about foreigners as you think .....

[FGT]

I read a news report tonight that suggests that Erdogan has eased things in Europe and that now Turkey can be perceived to have jumped through all the hoops necessary to reach the next stage of negotiations of EU membership.

I predict that the current EU members will not make it easy for Turkey to make any progress - there may well be a lot of flack flying.

Turks will not take kindly to that: "We've done everything they asked us to do and STILL we're not good enough!"

And then I fear a backlash against us, the Europeans on the spot.


Comments?

[ghost]

[bigbadsuzie]

Well thanks for all the replies so far guys and gals ,looks like the fun has just started . As FGT stated the story last night is Turkey is going to be allowed to make the next step forward to full Euro membership after all .Some people are going to try to block that and Turkey will have to jump through a lot more hoops ,but, despite what Ollie said I can see this country inside Europe within the next decade ,but, for some people it will be a nightmare and others a dream .
I don't agree that Europe will be flooded with Turks looking for work ,the opposite will happen,this country has a young ,dynamic workforce that can be trained and the major manufactures not just in Europe but globally will see this place in a different light ,therefore unemployment could become a thing of the past in this country .
The country has a huge set of natural resources and would ensure a safe passage for oil from the Caspian sea area ,added to that its geographial location and its large military capability this place has a lot to offer Europe .ın my mind there are a lot more pluses than minuses .