Job Discussion Forums

[atomic_donut]

As I have only just become a member of the forum as of today, I thought I would ask some of you more experienced posters for an opinion. Currently, I am nearing the completion of my Master's degree in International Development, and will turn 31 towards the end of this year. With the lack of opportunities in my field at the moment, I have seriously considered my options for 2005 and they have been narrowed down to 2 choices. Either I undertake a Grad. Diploma in TESOL for a year, which will permit me to teach anywhere in the world but Australia where I live, or do a general Grad. Diploma in Education with no specific focus on ESL teaching as I would prefer to specialise in primary school (elementary), rather than secondary school, or teenagers. This would qualify me to teach in Australia as well as around the globe, and depending on the university, may take 1 or 2 years to complete, depending on where and what I choose, as accelerated Graduate Bachelor of Education are 2 years in Australia.

While I have undertaken a couple of stints teaching English in China and Thailand, at the moment I have two conflicting thoughts. The first is to satisfy my desire for money and jet off to South Korea, Taiwan or possibly Japan to apply to teach without certification. After my last experience, I vowed not to do such a thing, because in my eyes, it would not be fair to the students I teach, due to lacking either some classroom management or lesser understanding of younger learners. But the attraction of money when you have student debts blinds logical thought sometimes. The second option would be if I did get accepted into a teaching course, I would be either 32 or 33 upon its completion, and I am concerned that employers overseas may get put off due to wanting younger teachers. Perhaps I am over-exaggerating things a little, but hopeflly you get where I am coming from.

I know that having a teaching diploma or TESOL certification will expand my choices and give me a greater selection of who to choose from, rather than having me scrap for leftovers and anything I can take, and the value of education titles goes a long way overseas too. It comes down to either looking short-term into 2005 and gaining a bit more experience and cash but no certification, with the option of doing a teaching diploma of some sort in the future and thus delaying the inevitable, or waiting an extra year (or possibly two if I get into a course that takes 2 years), doing the teaching program and having to scrounge for money a little longer. Howver, being in my early thirties, I do not wish to be financially strapped for too much longer.

Sorry for the long post, but this is something I am thinking about as a long-term possibility. I welcome any replies on the matter, but refer all criticisms to my agent

[Glenski]

[Ludwig]

[atomic_donut]

Ludwig, I was referring to a course overview of a Graduate Diploma in TESOL at the University of Canberra, which I am considering applying for next year. It stated something about it being a basic qualification for undertaking ESL/EFL teaching outside of Australia. Taking your point into account, it does not absolutely guarantee employment, though.

Glenski, thanks for your words of wisdom. I am well aware that the Master's I will obtain is not enough to teach in most places in Japan, and aside from being pretty words on my CV, isn't worth much else. There are probably cases where there are some good teachers out there without teaching certificates (e.g. CELTA, TESOL etc) that know how to communicate and engage with their audience, and those with the certificates that don't manage it so well, or find out eventually in time that the certification doesn't really prepare them well, or turns out to be of little use when they work for a school.

Just one last quick question. When I post my reply, does my quotation appear at the end of the post? Also, how do I get my avatar to appear? When I did my profile, I stipulated a website where the picture I wanted was located, but nothing happened when I submitted. If anyone can assist me out, that would be great. Thanks.

[sojourner]

AD,

You mentioned that you are interested in primary school teaching.Is this just because you think that such training would provide far more job offers than what you'll come across through the possession of a (mere !) Master's in International Development ? You should contemplate undergoing such training only if you really feel that the teaching of kids is,indeed, your "calling".

If you're keen to go o'seas,right now, to teach in run-of-the-mill ESL situations,you'd have few problems in finding jobs - especially in China.In fact,it'll be quite easy to pick up a job at a university here - although it would be advisable for you to undergo some relevant ESL training (eg CELTA or the Trinity College equivalent) before going.Once you get o'seas,you can commence studies in a Grad.Dip. or Master's programme in Applied Linguistics or TESOL.Many Australian universities provide either online or distance education programmes in those two fields,eg at UNE and Macquarie.

Have you ever thought about using you current Master's degree in getting a job ? Recently in an another thread,I discussed the area of English for Specific Purposes (ESP!).You might be able to land a job teaching English for Academic Purposes for students of international politics,business,or whatever.If the field of ESP/EAP interests you,you may want to include some pertinent units into your proposed new course of study,eg Adult Education (esp.relating to adult teaching/learning processes),and areas of Applied Linguistics relating to "genre analysis".Alternately,you may wish to enrol in a postgraduate programme in Adult Education,and to include some relevant units in TESOL/Applied Linguistics.Refer to some of my earlier posts re the topic of ESP.

If you are really keen to teach kids o'seas, but not so much in language school situations,you would be strongly advised to undergo some proper school teaching training (Grad.Dip of Education,B.Tchg,B.Ed.,etc).Also,you may be required to show evidence that you are registered as a qualified teacher by your local teaching authority - this may require that you have completed the equivalent of 1 year ft teaching.Check with both your local education authority,as well as some of the international schools.Some of the best o'seas jobs involving kids would be in the international schools sector .I doubt v.much whether such institutions would accept someone with merely a generalist degree and a TESOL certificate/diploma - thus,a "proper" teaching qualification (along with local registration) may be the way to go if you want to teach young kids.You could,if you are interested,include one or two TESOL or Applied Linguistics into your particular programme.If your uni doesn't provide such units,you could consider doing them at another uni,under a cross-institutional arrangement,and then to transfer them to your home uni.

BTW,it MIGHT be possible for you to enrol in a teacher training programme through the distance education (or online) medium - but there might,of course,be hassles in arranging for your practice teaching to be observed by a qualified person at a recognised school.But what could be done is for you to do most of the units online whilst o'seas,and then to return to Aust for one term or semester for the purpose of completing the units relating to teaching practice.Something to consider if you don't contemplate spending an ENTIRE year back in Aust doing the course !

Apart from international schools,you may also be interested in Hong Kong's NET scheme.But like the international schools,I believe that one is required to show proof of having completed a recognised course of teacher training,and to be registered as a teacher back in his/her home country.

You mentioned that you are in your early 30s - you are still a spring chicken ! It's only till you get to your early 40s that age may be a barrier - but only in certain countries,most notably Sth Korea.At this stage, any problems that you may encounter in getting a position in a hagwan (where most of the ESL jobs in ROK are) would be with respect to your accent - there appears to be a preference for those who have Nth American accents.But your (still) youthful age may still make the hagwan bosses consider you - although it might help if you could "con" them into thinking that you can speak like an American or Canuck ! !

Feel free to PM me should you have any queries.

Good luck with your proposed travel and study plans !

Regards,

Peter

[atomic_donut]

[AsiaTraveller]

David,

It's always good to click Preview to view your message before clicking the Submit button.

The Quote button will quote the entire message of the person to whom you're responding. However, you can then edit (i.e., shorten or revise) the quoted portion by simply changing what appears between the [quote=] and [/quote] tags in your message body. Delete whatever you like from that quote until only the portion you want remains.

Do NOT, however, delete any parts of those tags themselves, especially the brackets surrounding them.

By the way, a Master's in International Development is considered by American grad students to be quite a prize. They take them to get jobs all over the world. What's your concern?

[dmb]

AT, I usually delete first then hit submit.

I can't figure out how people get multiple quotes in the same post. If I do it your way will I succeed?

[AsiaTraveller]

dmb,

Just copy and paste the passages you want to quote from various posts.

In front of each quote, insert the [quote=] tag. Following each quote, insert the [/quote] tag. The poster's name goes inside the inverted commas (quote marks) " " following the = symbol in the [quote=] tag.

To start, use the Quote button in a particular post. Then take a look at how your message looks, including the tags surrounding the quote. Now you're ready to add some more quoted passages to your message body, checking with the Preview button until you have the hang of it.

You can most easily move back and forth between the forum and your editing window by keeping two browser windows open: one with your editing window ("Post a reply") and one with the forum. Or you can just compose your message in Word or another text editor until you're ready to paste it into the "Post a reply" window.

Too bad I can't use NetMeeting or some other Web conferencing tool to show you how it's done.

Let me know how it goes...

[atomic_donut]

AsiaTraveller,

Your point regarding using quotes more efficiently is taken. I will be morecareful in future.

My concern about the Masters of Social Science (International Development) is that here it doesn't really open up that many opportunities if you don't have significant experience, say between 5-10 years. It's tough for new graduates to break inside these walls, and hence a reason why a few end up working in other areas. It does come down to what connections the university has in place for being 'industry relevant', as well as individual endeavour.

By the way, do you have any tips on how I can get am avatar up and running? I have previously tried and mine attempts have not worked thus far.

Cheers

[AsiaTraveller]

I haven't tried adding an avatar. But I'm sure another helpful reader will come to your assistance!

[atomic_donut]

The avatar link has worked, and I have a bright new face to me. Woohoooooo...

[august03]

You can do a one-year Graduate Diploma of Education at La Trobe in Melbourne, check out VTAC www.vtac.edu.au. I am considering doing this on 2006. This certification plus a regular CELTA or TESOL will make you more than qualified to teach in most Asian countries, in China you can get a well paid job at an International school and save heaps of cash! When you're tired go home and find a position at a Primary School. That's enough options to tide you over until you find work in your chosen field. You can apply now, finish the course next November and you�re outta there!

[AsiaTraveller]

All I can say is, 'Doh!!!'

[atomic_donut]

august03, I have nominated the Grad. Dip in Education (I picked Primary)at La Trobe in Melbourne for my list of choices for 2005. Apparently, Melbourne Uni (2nd choice) is very choosy in who it accepts, and my other selection was RMIT. I may alter the order of the selection now that I have paid my VTAC application fee. It comes down to which place has the best resources and support. I will also apply for a Grad. Dipl. in TESOL at the University of Canberra too, if i feel like a change of environment.