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vre · Joined: 17 Mar 2004 Posts: 371

Which do you use?

shmooj · Joined: 11 Sep 2003 Posts: 1758 Location: Seoul, ROK

AT is usually used for shorter lengths of time in comparison for ON which is used for longer (general rule of thumb which helps students).

As a result, when I teach students this, I tell them that the Brits (who usually use AT) consider their weekends to be very short because they get more holidays per year on average than their counterparts in the US (who use ON usually) and so consider their weekends to be psychologically "longer" periods of time in comparison.

Professor Moriarty · Joined: 02 Jan 2005 Posts: 39 Location: The Overlook

It is simple: the British use 'at the weekend' and the Yanks 'on the weekend' in very much the same way in fact that the former say 'Autumn' and the latter 'Fall' (though these 'borders' are fading with the advent and influence of the US media). It is simply a matter of arbitrary lexical items agreed through implicit and wholly unexamined conventions held by the speech community in question. It does not matter what a speech community say as long as they all agree to 'mean' the same when saying the same thing. This is the way this component of natural language � the Saussurean Sign � has to be designed in order to work, especially with a type of word such as a preposition that stems from a closed class and is employed by speakers in so many different expressions and with both a lexical meaning (i.e., with semantic content) and as a pure grammatical preposition.

There is no need to dream up ad hoc and teleological comparative notions of perceived lengths and frequency of weekends and holidays. Why do those not trained in linguistics always seem to try to ground arbitrary language in non-arbitrary real world referents in such a hopelessly na�ve, myopic, and misguided way? Go and ask an average 6 year-old in London 'why' he says 'at the weekend' as opposed to 'on the weekend' (or vice-versa in New York) and you will either (a) get blank stares, or (b) a simple retort of 'because that is what you say'. I would venture that you would be highly unlikely to get as a reply a lay and plucked-from-a-hat just add hot water 'analysis' of the perceived 'length' of the weekend. Or, alternatively, simply go and ask a dock worker in Liverpool who may well never had a weekend off in his entire life if that is why he says 'at the weekend'.

Teacher in Rome · Joined: 09 Jul 2003 Posts: 1286

Professor Moriarty · Joined: 02 Jan 2005 Posts: 39 Location: The Overlook

As I said, pure ad hoc teleological nonsense (badly) disguised as 'analysis'.

once again · Joined: 27 Jan 2003 Posts: 815

Would I be wrong in suggesting that when a student asks for a reason...you would suggest.."Just because it is" without trying to show them a pattern of normal usage? This is a fascinating subject, and one that should be looked at closely. How do we help our students when they ask why? Are there patterns that we can suggest or should we just tell them that it is all "teleology"... suggest a lexical approach to the study?..or should we suggest some form of pattern analysis?...(of course using non linguist terms here..) to help them?
Interesting indeed for the genuine teacher.

sigmoid · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 1276

I'm a Yank and I always say "DURING the weekend", "ON Saturday" and "AT 3 o'clock".

Although I use a lot of British English I would never say "AT the weekend" as if it were a place.

Plus, I think a lot of times people just omit the preposition.

For example, "What did you do last weekend?"
or "I'll see you next weekend."

I agree with Professor Moriarty [I think]. If students ask "why" [which they usually don't] then I think "Well, that's the way British/American people say it" is a good explanation.

Stephen Jones · Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124

Welcome back Ludwig; nice to know you're as bilious as ever.

Cardinal Synn · Joined: 01 Nov 2004 Posts: 586

One can, of course, say over the weekend too. eg. "I'll get round to marking those tests sometime over the weekend."
As for having to give students some great explanation as to why we use at or on the weekend - why? Most of those learning English are doing so in order to be able to communicate in that language. Why should it be of any importance to them why the British use at and the Americans use on? Should we explain to them why Americans say airplane and Brits say aeroplane? The subject of prepositions may be fascinating to some ( I find it an interesting subject myself), but I really do doubt that it would appear so to 99% of your students.

Sigmoid said

"I'm a Yank and I always say "DURING the weekend", "ON Saturday" and "AT 3 o'clock".

Although I use a lot of British English I would never say "AT the weekend" as if it were a place."

However, Sigmoid does say "AT 3 o'clock", as if it were a place. I don't understand the reasoning there.

brasilstu · Joined: 02 Oct 2004 Posts: 271 Location: China

Professor Moriarty · Joined: 02 Jan 2005 Posts: 39 Location: The Overlook

Phil_b · Joined: 14 Oct 2003 Posts: 239 Location: Back in London

Being a red-blooded Englishman I say "At the weekend". However, I spent a few years down in South Wales and they all said "On the weekend". I thought it really funny or (funn-ee) until I realised Americans say it as well.
Also noticed: "By there" for "over there", "Tidy" for "Great (etc...)".... and they never say "Mum" or "Dad" - it's "Mother" and "Father". I've started to pick them up myself.........

Stephen Jones · Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124

There is no other explanation for the Brits using 'at' and the Americans 'on' than that that is what they use.

however it is useful to explain the general differences between at, on and in, because it makes it easier to understand why we talk about a student being 'at colllege' but 'in the classroom'.

lajzar · Joined: 09 Feb 2003 Posts: 647 Location: Saitama-ken, Japan

The official party line at my last school was

at - times
on - days (including festivals)
in - months, years

The rule for purposes of tests administered by Japanese teachers was on the weekend, but we accepted on or at in those tests administered by us gaijins.

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

I use "during" as well. Not always, just sometimes:

1. I'll be doing a lot of sleeping this weekend.

2. During the weekend, I do a lot of sleeping.

3. On Saturday, I'll do a lot of sleeping.

4. At 3:00 on Saturdays, I usually take a nap. I tend to take 2 or 3 naps during the weekend.

"At" seems to pinpoint a specific time, "on" a specific day, and "during" a more spreadout time or non-specific time. Which weekend? Most any weekend.

During the tour, we'll see two or three major sites.

During the afternoon, you can have a couple of coffee breaks.

(throughout seems to work as well: "I generally take 2 or 3 naps throughout the weekend.")