Job Discussion Forums

[Foolsboy]

Alright, try not to laugh at this post too much, but let�s be honest. A lot of us guys out there know that one of the main reasons we went into TEFL as a career was to find a good woman. This may seem silly, but for those of us single guys out there who plan to marry one day, it is a huge and important decision, and it would be smart not to limit our options to the women who live wherever we come from. I�m not saying that the desire to explore and experience nature, different languages, and different cultures or just wanting to experience something new to us or escape from something aren�t reasons we went into TEFL as well. I�m also aware that there is a strong desire to learn the intricacies of applied linguistics because we all know that that is a powerfully alluring Siren that is nothing short of futile to resist.

Alright, well, so I was thinking about the mail order bride phenomenon. I�m a young decent looking, nice, and somewhat funny Western man, and one of these days I hope to find a woman who�s wonderful and daring enough to be willing to file joint taxes with me. But I�m too young and cautious to go marry a foreign woman whom I barely know, and I wouldn�t be looking elsewhere if I didn�t think that Western women had the upper hand and that most of them are looking to take even more. Maybe this is wishful thinking on my part, but I�d like to find a place in the world where women don�t feel like they have to constantly compete with men or where women don�t think they always have to be right. Or where they don�t think that the word �housewife� is an insult or that men just want to keep them down. If there�s a place in the world where a lot of the women can actually love and trust men, then I�d like to find that place. Excuse me if I sound jaded and cynical, but this has been my experience with Western women anyway. I know every Western man and especially most of the Western women don�t feel this way.

Well, my idea is as an EFL teacher I could go to a place where there are a whole lot of good women looking for a good man, get to know one really well, and then eventually marry her and either stay there if I was happy or more likely bring her back home with me or to wherever we might both want to and be able to go. This would probably be better in the long run anyway, that is, if I at least somewhat understood where she was coming from and if I took the time to really get to know her before I hooked her up with that highly sought after shrine, the green card.

I�ve noticed that there are a whole lot of sites on the internet advertising Russian or Ukrainian mail order brides. I�m wondering what the deal with this is. I�ve heard that the amount of women in Russia and the Ukraine who sign up to be mail order brides are actually a very small percentage of the total female population of these countries. Is this true? Are the majority of Russian/Ukrainian men really lazy alcoholics who don�t appreciate a good woman? Are the economic conditions in Russia and the Ukraine really so bad that a lot of good women would actually marry a foreign stranger just to get out?

I guess what I�ve been getting at is this. For you men out there who have had romantic relationships/marriages with Russian/Ukrainian women or for those of you out there who have known or know men who have had romantic relationships/marriages with Russian/Ukrainian women, what was it like? Did it work out? Why or why not? For those who have been there, would you do it again if you could go back in time? For those of you who knew of such relationships, would you advise the guy to do it again if he could? Are these countries gold mines for young single Western men seeking a good woman, not even necessarily a wife right away, but a good woman, or are these mail order bride websites being misleading in the interest of their pocketbooks? And more generally, where are the good women of the world to be found? Thank you for your thoughts and time. I hope this topic gets some good responses.

[maruss]

Hi-I can give you some very useful advice based on personal experience,but would prefer to use your private e-mail address as I feel this subject is not directly relevant to this site and may break the rules of conduct.
my address is: [email protected]

meanwhile my friend,take care,as things may not be as they seem to be with this particular subject!

Martin.

[Buck Turgidson]

Well assuming this post is not a gag, I will try to disabuse you of some myths concerning Russian women. I have dated several Russian and Ukrainian women during my career so I have some familiarity with the subject (and no I didn't marry any of them and no this is not the reason I got into EFL).

First, if you don't know the woman's language you might as well forget it. And you will find that most women in Russia do not know English well enough to communicate on the level necessary for a healthy relationship. It will be difficult for you to find a woman there if you don't know the native language.

Second, consider the social malaise most of these women were raised in. One example would be the real problem with alcoholism. So probably 30% of the women there have an alcoholic (and maybe abusive) parent. This means a lot of women there have emotional/psychological baggage.

Third, Russian women are beautiful, but not very healthy. Many have bad teeth. This may not bother you if you are from the UK (sorry, I couldn't help myself). They are thin, not in a healthy way, but in a malnourished way. There were times in the last 12 years when food was scarce and this is reflected in the people's health. Women tend to have bad complextions which they hide by trowling on make-up. They like to make themselves up like vampires with dark eye make-up. But I digress. Combine with these the bad environment and abysmal health care and you have a generation of women with health problems. Oh yea, and they smoke.

Most women do NOT want to leave Russia and you will find that those who do are precisely the agressive, materialistic women you are trying to avoid. The traditional ones marry Russian men.

And be careful with mail order bride sites. A lot of those women just want to see how many letters and gifts they can score from lonely Western men.

Also sprach Buck

[Kent F. Kruhoeffer]

Hi Buck

When I read your closing line, "Also sprach Buck", I almost fell off my chair laughing! Very, very funny. So, you're a fan of Nietsche, eh? hmmm.

Well, I'm glad someone replied to Mr. Foolsboy. His post was trashed pretty heavily on the general forum, and I feel kind of sad for him now. As a born-again bachelor, this is just NOT my area of expertise. Thanks, Buck, for taking time to share your comments with him.

Have a good day people
keNt

PS: In the future, and based on your comments about Russian women's teeth ... I'm going to teach a special class on the virtues and benefits of using toothpaste with flouride.

[maruss]

To avoid writing a book on this subject(which I could easily do!) some of my own experiences are:firstly,there is a big difference between girls nowadays and more middle-aged women who grew up during the soviet era and were used to an alternative society and values!
Especially in big cities like Moscow,where there are better paid jobs and much more money around generally,people are used to more and expect more.It is difficult for a foreigner to understand the Russian mentality-I still find some things a mystery,even after all this time of repeated visits and being involved with Russians etc,both as friends,lovers etc!Sex nowadays is just a part of life for them and discussed more openly than in the more puritanical Soviet times,but you should remember that life in Russia is still very hard for many,many people,despite the opulence which you find in central Moscow-for millions and millions of Russians,there are little prospects in the forseeeable future of a decent life for them or their kids and social problems are enormous,as well as all the other stress and ecological problems caused by the conditions they have to endure.Corruption,cheating and even stealing are very commonnplace at all levels of society from the top(who are the best example of the worst!) to ordinary people struggling to survive!
In a society where everyone was taught that there was no God for decades,materialism prevailed and peoples values were formed around this principle-without getting into philosophy and spiritual things right now,this was no doubt a contributory factor to the collapse of the old system-but the big question is,what has replaced it??
I fully agree that Russian women have health and complexion problems etc.but they always seem to do their best to look good with what resouces they have available-and cosmetics etc. are usually very expensive for them!Of course it depends on the family background and conditions they grew-up in,but prostitution is by no means considered as so terrible a way to earn money under such difficult circumstances,and this is where foreign guys need to be careful!If they have decided to make money that way,Russian girls can be very mercenary and ruthless and I have seen so many men,both here in Cyprus where our cabarets have become notorious internationally as fronts for a very lucrative prostitution trade involving girls from the former east block,and on visits to the annual tourism exhibition in Moscow where most hotels are full of "working girls",try to get emotionally involved with them after being mesmerised by their erotic performances in bed!!And believe you me,most of them are very good at their job and know how to be nice when they are earning good money for it!
On the other side(and strictly "off the record" as I have been married since 1974 to a very nice woman from Cyprus and have a teenage son!)I have been involved with a Russian lady for several years who is from Moscow,in her early 40's but looks younger and is a widow with a married daughter.She is a lovely woman and for me has all the attributes of an ideal partner as we are very compatible and have similar interests-not only is she a super lover,but is also very decent-NEVER has she asked me for money or to buy her anything once and when I have stayed with her,despite the fact that she was working until 8p.m. etc, there was always a meal for me when I came home that she knew I would enjoy.
Maybe I have just been very lucky to have met her and other guys,both Russian and foreign agree with me 100% in my judgment of her as apparently few of the younger women today,especially in Moscow,are as kind and generous as she is.The other good point is that she knows my family situation and has never made any demands on me which I cannot fulfil,such as living together,getting married etc although I am pretty sure she would agree if I ever did ask her!
Another, more tragic example which I am still involved in,cocerns a lovely younger girl,now 27 from the north of Russia,who came here a few years ago with her would have been mother in law,hoping to start a new life after her fiance had been killed in a car accident at home-she just survived after several operations and has permanent scars on her body as a reminder!To cut a very long story short,an older Russian lady here who I had known since 1993 and trusted as a close friend who was allegedly taking care of the younger girl,was not only secretly whoring,but induced the younger girl into it as well!Needless to say,I was horrified at what she had done when I found out,and of course she is now a very ex-friend of mine!!They were deported from Cyprus in 2001 and are now in Spain-from what the younger girl tells me,they split-up as soon as they went there and she has changed her lifestyle.I really hope this is true as she is a beautiful child at heart who was exploited and manipulated by an evil person who I had formerly trusted!By the way,the younger girls home background was unstable-her mother has been married 3 times and is economically under great strain with an alchoholic husband and 2 other teenage children to support from him!I suspect her daughter was abused when she was younger and this may have damaged her psychologically and partially contributed to her turning to prostitution,which is quite common in Russia as you already wrote!I have actually corresponded with a Russian lady psychiatrist who now lives in the states about this subject and she will try to help her if possible.This woman,Olga Karitidi is a well-known spiritual researcher and author of two excellent books on new-age subjects-you can visit her website at:witss.com

All the best for now.

Martin.

[Foolsboy]

Kent, I forgot to thank you for responding to my post in the general forum. Thank you, and thank you for your sympathy. Buck and Martin, thank you for your help as well. O meine Brueder, es war lieb von Ihnen, mir zu helfen.

Also sprach der Junge des Narrs

[Kent F. Kruhoeffer]

Hello Foolsboy

I posted this link on the general forum, but decided to repost it here for anyone interested in marriage laws as they pertain to Russia.

Here's the link: http://www.abc-russian-women.com/abc/how_to_content.htm

Regards,
kEnT

[Buck Turgidson]

Mit Vergnuegen!

[Albulbul]

Forget these Russian ladies. Come and have a look at Bulgaria. Amazing.

[Pushok]

I opened this message thinking it might have some decent views and advice. wow - was I wrong? Firstly, Russian women do not have the amazing amount of emotional baggage, the bad teeth and the low level of English which Buck speaks of. Secondly, not everyone who came here came here to meet a Russian woman and get married.

I've been here around 6 years + have a Russian wife + a 18mth baby now. If anyone wants to ask someone about real experience in Russia (Moscow and St.Petes) without the usual affected cynicism which so many over here wear like the latest character-fashion, then please ask more.

By the way, when I came to Russia I thought all Russian women would look like shotputters and was pleasantly surprised.

[maruss]

I absolutely know how you feel-stereo typing any race is never a good idea and as you will see from my extensive reply on the subject of Russian ladies,I have met a very decent one who I would certainly consider as good as anybody from any country!The basic problem stems from the fact that it is a very different culture and society which is hard for a foreigner to understand,and has serious social and other problems which most of us have never experienced!

All the best for now!

Martin.

[Buck Turgidson]

How is this for a stereotype: "Russian women are the most beautiful women in the world. But they are very traditional and only want to have children and stay home and cook and clean and serve their husbands."

This is the skewed vision of Russian women held by many men in the west (and perhaps some on this board). My post (admittedly exagerrated) was an attempt to dispell some of these notions. But I maintain the general truth of my earlier post.

Buck

[Foolsboy]

Pushok, I�d like to hear more about your experiences with Russian women. I�d like to hear more from anybody about their experiences with Russian women. Feel free to palm me or post again in this thread.

I e-mailed Martin a bunch of questions. I figure I�d go ahead and just ask everyone.

Martin mentioned that it might be a good idea for me to find couples, American men and their Russian wives, here in America and get to know them. I suppose I could just e-mail some dating agencies and see if they'd be willing to get me in touch with some of their success stories. For example, I�m going to research that site more that Kent provided the link to in one of his posts above.

1) Do you have any other ideas about how I could make contacts with Russian-American couples in the US?

Alright, moving away from the women issue:

(From what I've read in this forum it's hard to find a decent teaching job in Russia, if you consider �decent� or "good" to be a job where a vagabond EFL teacher can live more or less at the comfort level that he/she has grown accustomed to in the world of EFL. I consider a �decent� job would also have airfare paid for, visa help, and you wouldn�t be stuck with a roommate unless you chose one once you got there. (I realize Russia isn�t the coziest place to teach, so save the preaching about that for someone else. Keep in mind that I got into EFL to explore and teach and not just to find a woman, so try to hold back the criticism about that too. Russia is one of the places that I've wanted to teach in for some time now). I recall hearing Kent say that Russia is no place to go if you aren�t that experienced in TEFL, so even if I won�t be going to Russia for a few years, and assuming that it's possible that I could find a decent teaching job in Russia, I have some more questions for you).

2) What credentials do I need to find a decent job teaching English in Russia? I'm assuming I should finish the M.A. in TESOL program I've started taking classes in before I start my journey to Russia. I don't think I'll have it finished for about three years as I have to worry about raising the money to pay for it as well as the work that the classes require, so you see I still have far to go. An M.A. in TESOL would only help, right, or do you think that teachers can get good jobs in Russia with just a CELTA or TEFL/TESL Certificate and experience? That is, what are your thoughts about M.A. TESOLs for EFL teachers in Russia -- A waste of time and money or necessary to get good jobs?

3) Should I take the extra time to take some Russian classes before I head over to Russia, or do you think I should just go to Russia once I get a CELTA or M.A. in TESOL and have enough money saved up? Keep in mind at this point I don�t even know the Russian alphabet, but I know learning a language takes a long time, and I don't want forever to go by before I get over there.

4) How much money should I have saved before I go to Russia?

5) How would I go about getting a job exactly? Should I just show up somewhere in Russia and drop off my resume to language schools, universities, and American institutes? Is there a certain CELTA program or training institute where I could get certified in TEFL/TESL that has good connections in Russia and that would be able to hook me up with a good job in Russia? Or is it that a CELTA is a CELTA no matter where you get it?

6) What city or cities or where exactly would you recommend that I go to to look for work teaching English in Russia? I think I would love the culture in St. Petersburg, and if the winter�s aren�t as harsh there as farther down the continent, well, obviously that�s nice.

Alright people, thanks for your time. I know I asked a lot of questions. But what can I say? I have a lot of questions. I appreciate any help.

[maruss]

I'm nearly 50,and if I got a degree when I was younger,I would have been able to to get much further than I have in life,so my advice is if you have started one,finish it!
Of course you could get job teaching in Russia right now,for about 500 u.s. per month and you DON'T HAVE to share a flat if you insist on having your own!
Learning Russian is always a good idea,even the alphabet to start-off with,although it will much easier once you go there-if you can call such a complicated language easy!The grammar in particular,is the worst and word endings change according to their place in the sentence and context etc!There is no article either,like we have in English!
Much as I hate to admit it because there are things I love about the place,especially my close friends there(male and female!),Russsia is not exactly an ideal place to go and live in-there are so many problems socially,economically,environmentally,coupled with horrendous corruption at all levels of offficialdom and a crroked legal system-the few people that have the mmey to enjoy a good quality lifestyle are really very few,and as one famous Russian pianist stated recently"we are ruled by the worst kind of people-those that have money,but absolutely no culture!!"
Not to say that I think George Bush is an ideal ruler either!

Cheers for now!

Martin.

[maruss]

I'm nearly 50,and if I got a degree when I was younger,I would have been able to to get much further than I have in life,so my advice is if you have started one,finish it!
Of course you could get job teaching in Russia right now,for about 500 u.s. per month and you DON'T HAVE to share a flat if you insist on having your own!
Learning Russian is always a good idea,even the alphabet to start-off with,although it will be much easier once you go there-if you can call such a complicated language easy!The grammar in particular,is the worst and word endings change according to their place in the sentence and context etc!There is no article either,like we have in English!
Much as I hate to admit it because there are things I love about the place,especially my close friends there(male and female!),Russia is not exactly an ideal place to go and live in-there are so many problems socially,economically,environmentally,coupled with horrendous corruption at all levels of offficialdom and a crroked legal system-the few people that have the money to enjoy a good quality lifestyle are really very few,and as one famous Russian pianist stated recently"we are ruled by the worst kind of people-those that have money,but absolutely no culture!!"
Not to say that I think George Bush is an ideal ruler either!

Cheers for now!

Martin.