Job Discussion Forums

[anton]

Hello guys! Through experience or better understanding, would anyone recommend the one over the other....finding a job before entering China or travelling around and searching once there? I seem to be spending alot of time on the net looking at job advertisements but without really knowing what i should be looking for!! if that makes any sense at all!

Thanks for your thoughts...Anton

[Sinobear]

I landed my first job here via my school back in Canada, but I'll take a stab at helping you in your quest.

1. Location: do you want to be in a big, (relatively) safe city with all Western conveniences - or do you want a smaller, more basic locale? Cities such as Beijing, Guangzhou, and Shanghai are expensive to live in but make for a comfy life. Smaller cities have less exposure to foreigners, making you somewhat a "freakshow". Smaller cities are more intimate and you'll be forced to be more self-reliant. If you want to learn Chinese language and culture at an accelerated pace, look for small cities, if you want to "try it and see", go for the big cities.
2. Students: what level (and to what depth) do you want to teach? Teaching primary students is extremely difficult without a Chinese counterpart in the classroom (and a competent one at that!). Middle school students may/may not have had exposure to ESL classes before. Teens, by their very nature, can be vindictive, cruel, and the most trying on your patience. On the flip-side, teens, should they trust you, can be the greatest source of social learning that you'll do here (they're the ones that will invite you to join them here, there, and everywhere).
Adults can be easy to teach if they're motivated, near impossible to fathom if they they feel superior to you (and most do, outwardly at least).
3. Hours: can you handle up to 30 contact hours a week, stuck in the office for another 10 or more hours? Do you like split shifts? Teaching at "English mills" can burn you out fast. Government schools have considerably less contact hours and may/may not require you to be in the office when you don't have lessons.
4. Salary: YOU WILL NOT GET RICH HERE!!! If you have debilitating student loans to repay...forget it. The cost and inconvenience to send money home will leave you broke and feeling like an indentured servant. The salaries have been dropping steadily here so one must do a careful analysis of: the cost of living in the area that you choose; savings required/desired; and, you should be realistic about your lifestyle requirements.
5. Legalities: Is the school legitimate (can they legally employ FEs?). If they offer to process a "Z" visa for you, it's a good sign. Being told to come here with an "L" visa, that's a bad sign. Coming here on a "F" visa is hotly debated in these forums (worked for me, doesn't seem to have worked for others). Visas, contracts, FECs, FRPs are covered thoroughly in other posts.

N.B. There are a lot of Pollyannas lurking in these forums - those that will say, "just come with a good attitude". Be wary...life in China is not easy.
This will not be a paid vacation, no matter what the advertisements may say. This is real life in a real foreign country (where you are definitely the most visible minority). The novelty soon wears off, and reality sets in...that's when you'll discover yourself more than China. I'm having the time of my life here now. This came at a heavy price...experience.

Bah! I've lectured enough! Bottom line: think of what you have to offer (educational level, experience, maturity, above all - patience) and weigh that against what you are being offered. I would consider, if time and finances permit, to come here first to visit. See some schools, talk to some teachers, make a few contacts, then return home for some serious soul-searching.
Unless you're a backpacker/wanna-be dj/womanizer, in which case, I've wasted my time.

[anton]

Thanks for your help...i don't have a degree..how does this change my situation? i'm seeing jobs for 4,000-6,000 CNY for 20 contact hours, fully furnished appartment provided, half medical insurance payed, flight reimbursment after contract completion, 20 days paid holiday, bonus at end of year....sound ok? with only 20 hrs /week i could probably find time for some private lessons...true/false?! i'v spoken to people who say they spend about 1000/ month that leaves them with around 3/4000 to play around with save, whatever...thats not too bad....i have no student debt...anyhow money is not the issue with me although it is in short supply...more the experience and lifetime rewards on offer from working in a country like China.

[Sinobear]

Anton:

It is the Chinese Government's stipulation that you have at least a BA to be considered a Foreign Expert. Certainly, and it has been said many times on these forums, that it is possible to teach without one.
4K - 6K depends on city, cost of living, and taxes. A lot of schools claim "free, furnished, utilities paid" apartments that turn out to be shared, run-down, and then hold back money for utilities for which you will never see a receipt. Any bonus you might receive is purely up to the whim of the management. 20 Contact hours gives you a lot of free time UNLESS you are required to sit the remaining 20 hours of the work week in the office.
Technically, it is illegal to find work outside of your contracted employment; however, whether or not you will be checked upon is at the whim of the local PSB (Public Security Bureau).
The personal experience you gain from working in China is enriching (depending on how you personally look back upon it) but the professional experience counts for nothing in your home country. Lifetime rewards? Maybe a STD or wife (I'm just jesting on both counts). That again is subject to speculation. Some people have the most harrowing and bitter experience (usually due more to their choice of workplace rather than any fault of the Chinese populace in general). Others come and go after 6 months or a year (veni, vidi, arrivideci), and then there's us old farts - we b*tch, we moan, we grumble, we love it, we wouldn't think of leaving (okay, just one more year...)

Email the prospect that interests you the most. Get the email addresses (better yet, the phone numbers) of present and past teachers. Read a lot of the forums...become sensitized to the emotions being expressed vice what posters actually type (fear, anger, disappointment, regret, optimism...yada yada yada).

Good luck!

[bobber46]

The qualities and amenities of the city or town in which I am going to live and work are very high on my list of important criteria. I wouldn't dream of taking a job without first visiting the area.

My recomendation: study all you can about China and start getting a feel for which areas sound interesting to you. When you are able, visit those areas, find the one you like the best, then look for a job.

[Roger]

Words and pictures are always more enticing than reality; come over and check out those schools with your own eyes! Also, buildings look a lot more flashy from outside, but dreary from within.
Touring the country enables you to first acclimatise and get the feel of the place; this will help you lower your expectations or adjust to what is required of you.
I deem the salary range of 4000 to 6000 as pretty mainstream to goodf. Make sure you get your airfare and your induction paid for by them (visa and medical exam). Also, look at how many holidays they pay. Private employers pay far fewer than public schools!

[Chabui]

I am still new to the job search and find this information interesting. This brought up some questions for you guys:

1. Do you just travel around by train and bus and stay in hotels in the areas you are interested in? (sounds elementary but it is a legit question in my mind)

2. After the cost of the plane ticket how much cash on hand should you have for this traveling investigation? I have asked several people this question and I have never gotten a reply (not on this message board). Is there a sacred oath taken not to talk about money?

3. If you find a school, and they hire you do you show them the cost of your plane ticket over so they can reimburse you-if it is included in the contract. I suppose you can negotiate that at the time of the contract.

These are just a few thoughts that popped into my head reading this thread.

Thanks for any information you can give me!!!

[Chabui]

I am still new to the job search and find this information interesting. This brought up some questions for you guys:

1. Do you just travel around by train and bus and stay in hotels in the areas you are interested in? (sounds elementary but it is a legit question in my mind)

2. After the cost of the plane ticket how much cash on hand should you have for this traveling investigation? I have asked several people this question and I have never gotten a reply (not on this message board). Is there a sacred oath taken not to talk about money?

3. If you find a school, and they hire you do you show them the cost of your plane ticket over so they can reimburse you-if it is included in the contract. I suppose you can negotiate that at the time of the contract.

These are just a few thoughts that popped into my head reading this thread.

Thanks for any information you can give me!!!

[Sinobear]

Chabui:

I found my current position via the 'net. I emailed two contacts until all my questions/concerns were answered to my satisfaction. I travelled to the city, met everyone concerned, checked out all the resources, the accomodation, and kept my eyes and ears open for the reactions of those around. I travel with enough money to get there, a couple nights in a hotel, and enough to get myself out if things go awry. If you are accepted, or you choose to accept the position, you can use the hotel money to live on until payday. You should always enough in reserve to leave should the need/situation arise.
It's a difficult question to put in dollar terms. I always fly if possible...I prefer the expediency. Others prefer the cheapest route. Some like the "romance" of the train. I prefer to stay in 4-Star hotels. Some may prefer hostels. You see, it varies from person to person and location to location.
Some employers will reimburse your ticket pdq (mine did) plus a yearly stipend for travel (or return ticket). Others will reimburse you over time, or at the end of your contract. If they hire you in China, you will get back your in-country travel expenses. If you're hired from overseas, they should reimburse the cost of the round-trip ticket.

N.B. It is not wise to advertise how much money that you carry on your person while travelling. This forum is accessible to anyone, the less of a target you make of yourself, the less chance of an unfortunate incident occurring.

Good luck!

[amberrollins]

Personally, I found my job over the Internet, sitting at home in the US. I took the time to do as much research as I could - about the school, about the area, about teaching in China - before I committed to anything, and it worked out extremely well for me. I know I was lucky, but it did happen.

There's pros and cons for both looking at home and coming to China. Obviously, if you fly here first, you will see everything live and in person. However, this does require a certain financial investment that you may not be able to afford.

If you look at home, you have plenty of time to juggle offers, ask questions, and do research, all for the price of your Internet connection. But you don't get that first-hand knowledge.

It's your choice, which somewhat depends a great deal on your current resources.

And I do think that if you come with a snotty "hail the glorious Westerner" attitude and a sense of entitlement, you will not have a good time, nor, more importantly, be a good teacher.

[Roger]

How much dough should you bring with you? Man, you are asking questions - have you never travelled on your own???
China is a medium-expensive tourist destination; I recommend counting on U.S.$ 500 per month on travelling and accommodation including food and entertainment, - more is better.
Is that expensive?
I don't think so, and if you can't spend that much I don't know how you are going to stomach this couyntry.

You know, I am not from a country where they think making debts is a patriotic virtuer I have always depende3d solely on my own resources - and that's why I have been doing so well over the years. Never had to ask anyone to bail me out!

But I got to know China before I committed myself, and in fact, the offers came to me rather than me looking for them.

Should you get your airfare paid upfront? My young and inexperienced friend: I toured China wholly at my own expense. When I was repaid some airfare it was retroactivge, after I had spent two years and a half in this country.

It is your right to get a reimbursement of your flight costs - but many employers cheat you out of that. That's why I suggest to come here well equipped and prepared!

[burnsie]

There are pros and cons for both coming to china to look for a job or just sit back and do it from home.

YOU have to work out how adventurous you are in the whole scheme of things. If you need someone to hold your hand when you come to China OR you don't want to pay a few hundred dollars for peace of mind by coming here first, well, it's up to you.

I would say (at a stab in the dark) contracts are not followed exactly by 80% of the time so what you come here with an open mind that negotiations skills are a necessity.

You definately have to understand how adventurous and how you can deal with frustrations that the Chinese will put you through all the time.

I would love to develop a Psyche test for FT's who are about to work in China.

[Chabui]