Job Discussion Forums

[HariSeldon]

Hello all,

From what I can gather, I shouldn't be too discouraged if I don't find an appropriate job over the internet. That's good news. I've also gathered that my not having a degree isn't too much of a black mark for some employers. Also good news. I realize that it's probably not too 'legit', but does anyone have any more information on these dodgy degrees? What are the benefits, exactly? I understand that there _are_ certain schools that won't accept you without a degree, but wouldn't these certain schools be privy to the fake degrees being sold in town? And wouldn't they take steps to contact your 'University', etc? Also, hypothetically, how much should one of the degrees run me? For pure-research usues only

And my second point, I understand that a number of schools offer accomodation (or help). My brother lives in Bangkok (I'm not at all familiar with the city, so I can't pinpoint where it's close to, etc), and he's offered to put me up in his house indefinitely. Should I mention this to my employer? Would it help me in securing a job? Would there be any financial compensation for my having arranged my own quarters? I don't expect there would be, but I'd like to know.

Vitals: Canadian/Irish. No degree, no TEFL experience or certificate, plenty of teaching experience (Music) and tutoring in English, Math, Social Studies. I realize this isn't a very good track record, and if it's strongly advised, I'll take a TEFL course over the next 6 weeks.

Thanks everyone!

Brian
BFD!

[ronin]

Well if you do get a job in Bangkok you will be working illegally and to get a proper work permit you do need a degree, and you don�t want to get caught with a fake one, because you will be deported and banned from the country. Yeah people get away with it, but is it a chance you are willing to take? Why don't you take 4 years out of your life to work on a degree? Yeah I know money is a problem but there are always government loans. I remember I was just like you I used to say stuff like "I don't need a degree to teach, I have years of experience, plus I have no money to get a degree" But I then realized that piece of paper is my ticket to the world. I was broke but I stopped making excuses, got a job at a record store and I'm putting myself through school and 4000$ CAN is dirt cheap compared to other countries for yearly tuition and that world recognize degree you will get. I only have 2 years left before I get my degree in International relations and after I graduate I will be hopefully working at the Canadian embassy in Bangkok or somewhere in Asia.

My point is would you rather take a chance on getting a criminal record if you get caught with a fake degree? Or are you willing to make some sacrifices to get your degree so that you can be finally free for what you want to do? A degree is the key to the world.

[HariSeldon]

Excellent advice, Ronin. And, believe it or not, I'm kind of taking your advice at the moment. You see, I'm in my third year of an Education Degree (Major English, Minor Music). Due to a problem with scheduling, I can't do my practicum until next September. Meaning that I have nothing to do from January until September. I'd like to get some English teaching experience under my belt _before_ I do my practicum, since the more practice the better, if you get me. I wasn't aware of the criminal records stuff, though. Can you elaborate on that?

Thanks,
Brian

[ronin]

That's great you're going for your degree brotha, it will open up the world for ya and not only Thailand. To tell you honestly I don't know a whole lot about the laws of Thailand, and you probably won't get caught with a fake degree unless the school checks up on you, but like I said is it worth taking the chance? If you already have money to sustain yourself until September and you're only looking for experience then finding work wont be to difficult because there are places that will hire without a degree, but the pay will be sh-it. And since you don't have a proper work permit you would have to do visa runs to other countries to re-new your visa every 30 or 90 days, but someone currently living in Thailand should answer the question about visas.

[kenkannif]

It is possible to get a work permit without a degree (as has been said many times before). Not easy, but certainly possible!

The pay needn't be that bad to be honest! I know people with degrees earning far less than people without. TiT, where there's a will there's a way!

While I don't condone the use of fake degrees, I don't think it's quite as bad as Ronin is making out. In four years here I've neve heard of anyone getting a criminal record for using one! In fact I know people that have been knocked back by the MoE, and that's all that happened. I know another chap who was reported to the MoE (by some people at his school) he was still working there 6 months later!

I can advise in regards to Visas...so whatcha wanna know?

[Sheep-Goats]

Fake degrees are manufactred on Khao San road and cost very very little. They will only help you with an employer who doesn't care anway, and you'll likely not be able to secure a work permit with one (though it's possible to do so through beaurcratic bungling). Likewise, they'll only land you a job at a place that cares about you having a degree (most places these days) through the same kind of bungling. Putting a fake on your resume will be as good for those who don't care as having some shady Thai guy on KSR run you off a fake for you to flash at the recruiter.

Employers don't give a hot fart about where you live. Accomdation is only typically provided by schools out in the sticks. Part of your salary will be an 8000B "housing allowance" which should just be called "tax free portion of your income" as it actually has nothing to do with housing at all. The fact that you choose to live in your brother's house is in no way an incentive for an employer to hire you or give you extra money -- why would you think that it would be? Money is scarce here.

If you're going to come into Thailand to teach without a degree or any EFL teaching experiece I strongly reccomend you do your students the mininmal honor of getting a TEFL certificate. The TEFL International one in Phuket is supposed to be very good, the CELTA at ECC is more recognized the world over (though since you dont' have a degree teaching English won't be a career prospect for you anyway).

My first job was in China with a BA English and a CELTA from an American school. The other foreigner there had a PhD in a non-related field and over 20 years of high school teaching experience. For the first two months we were on very equal footing as far as lesson planning went, simply because he was having immense difficulty getting his students to do anything or understand what he was saying (he stood still at the front of the room and did his best to get across what needed getting across largely with complex sentences and fairly difficult vocab -- and didn't realize he was doing it). If you don't have any of his advantages you'll really be up shit creek when 25 thirteen year olds start rioting in your class, all in Thai, with no TEFL training at all.

[zoubaidah]

Hari if you're only going for a few months an employer won't want to go to the trouble of paying for a work permit for you anyway. You can get part time work at one or more schools and live ok for the time you're there. You can work part time with a TEFL certificate and without a degree, provided you can convince schools to hire you. But there - it's all really up to you. If you're prepared to put some preparation in - do a TEFL certificate, be able to put something on your resume that says you've taught a bit of EFL, take proper work clothes and a professional manner - both to interviews and to your classes - you'll get work. Early January some schools will be replacing the teachers who've done runners over New Year. Write again if you want more info.
Zee

[zoubaidah]

Just thought of some more things:
Great if you can live with your brother - provided he lives near the Skytrain or the Subway - travel is the worst part of working in BKK. You may find that an apartment of your own isn't expensive and is more convenient in the long run, but free housing while you job hunt is great.
Put the part of your degree that you've done on your resume - at least employers can see that you're on the way. Put your other tutoring experience too - it's all teaching.
And here's a bit of general advice - perhaps not for you since you're not looking for a 12month contract:
Don't go near Kao San Road for a fake degree - employers can spot them a mile off, and it doesn't look good for you if you're challenged. You say - Yeah - I got down Kao San - so they know you're doing something dishonest. Or you say - It's real - and they know you're lying. And if perchance a degree gets past the employer - it's very likely to be spotted when it gets to the education department. Either way - don't do it. I should say that some schools turn a blind eye - they are ones who have no intention of getting you a work permit anyway -no matter what they tell you at interview. I still say - you're btter off no matter what by staying on the straight and narrow. And have fun in BKK - it's a great city.