Job Discussion Forums

2centsworth · Joined: 04 Apr 2003 Posts: 2

Ok, I'm in need some really good advice from some China pros.

I'm not happy with my present position and have been offered another I think is better. So, I want to change ships. This means breaking a contract and paying a fine which I would be most happy to do. I work in a university.

However, the school has given me a Foreign Expert Certificate good until January 2004, Residence Permit good until August 2003 and an expired F visa. I was told a visa is not required if you have a Residence Permit, except of course, I can't leave.

So, how should I go about changing schools? Do the documents belong to me or does the school have the authority to void them? And does the area code on the FEC limit my mobility?

Any and all suggestions welcome and thanks to all in advance.

MartinK · Joined: 01 Mar 2003 Posts: 344

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

I concur with MartinK, but in case 2centsworth has a valid reason for jumping ship, here are some points:
- You are not legal because you only have a business visa. I don't know how you obtained that, but it does not permit you to win your bread. It does allow you to "conduct business" with Chinese businesses that sell to export markets. You can't rent housing legally.

- So if you do a midnight runner they can't stop you. I would not even be afraid of them having friends at the PSB... provided your new place of work is not in the same city.
- The various permits you have been given must at any rate be given back to your school which must return them to the authorities. You canNOT use them in a different location! They are like your passport - the property of the issueing country!

- Changing your job LEGALLy means you must get a release letter from your current employer. In your case, I don't know if that's necessary since you have not been hired legally. The new school must go through the same hoops as any other school hiring an expat: They must apply to the PSB for you, and they can do that if you have undergone a recent medical examination.

Without that, they won't be allowed to sponsor you (AIDS status is of paramount importance).
So, it's up to you to choose to just drop your current job and run away, losing your airfare reimbursement and holiday benefits, or staying on and seeing your present situation out, as well as proving your loyalty to your charges!
Don't be so naive as to believe you can always get a new job when you want to - often the hirers change their minds too!

gerard · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 581 Location: Internet Cafe

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

The visa is different from the residence permit (Green card) and foreign experts certificate (red card) The visa allows you to come into the country. The residence permit allows you to legally stay and work. ..at the place that sponsored you to come. If you move/change jobs, these two cards are not worth squat. If you leave the country, technically you are supposed to hand in these cards ( I never have).
The airport security/customs can fine you if you overstay your residence permit. Your visa may be good to Jan 2004, but if your residence permit has expired, you are illegal. I think (I'm not sure) you have 30 days "free time" to stay after the expiration of your residence permit.
I'm not sure i understand about the expired F visa, I thought you needed a z-visa to get your cards. I would not say a visa is not needed...only that the authorities look for your residence permit, not your visa.

MyTurnNow · Joined: 19 Mar 2003 Posts: 860 Location: Outer Shanghai

I share the confusion about the Residence Permit and Foreign Expert Certificate. How did you get these on a Business Visa???

I further concur that you should _always_ keep your visa current. Might want to ignore advice otherwise. Sometimes the Foreign Liaisons in some of these schools are in way over their heads and don't really know what they are doing. Nor should you always take advice on here (including mine) at face value. Go to a Chinese Embassy website and learn the rules for yourself...for your own protection. If my understanding is correct, you can be fined something like 500 RMB a day if you try to leave China on an expired visa.

But I myself have seen conditions so bad that there was no option to jumping ship. It should not be done lightly, but sometimes it must be done.

MT

2centsworth · Joined: 04 Apr 2003 Posts: 2

Thanks to everyone for your info.

I guess 'jumping ship' was not exactly the best choice of words. I am simply choosing to leave but still in accordance with the rules of the contract with the administration fully aware of my actions.

Funny thing though, the F visa was obtained by myself from the embassy in my home country using a faxed invitation letter. Once having arrived and passing a physical, the Expert Card and Residence Permit were then provided. My original visa expired after 30 days of arrival and no other visa was ever issued to replace it? So, I guess arioch36 is right that a Residence Permit alone makes you legal. Maybe they do this to prevent teachers from leaving without their knowledge?

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

No, you have not been legal on your F visa, despite arioch's saying so!
There was a misunderstanding that is common in China: YOur invitation was misinterpreted to mean you were going to be hosted as a business partner from overseas. This was practice, and apparently still is practice, in nominally-socialist China! Business people do not always just show up on their own - in the past, they needed a formal invitation from a Chinese state organisation.
So that's how you got your business visa.
But it did not entitle you to earning a living in China, nor to obtaining those documents!
This was the result of muddling through by Chinese bureaucrats who don't understand their own rules!

MyTurnNow · Joined: 19 Mar 2003 Posts: 860 Location: Outer Shanghai

Roger is absolutely right on the F visa. The ONLY visa authorized to draw a salary within China is the Z.

Regardless of visa type, I'm also reasonably sure that you are also not legal solely on the Residence Permit....which I'm still not sure how you ever got with a 1-month F visa. TIFC, I suppose.

If I understand correctly, the visa is your right to enter and reside in China. The Residence Permit is tied to a specific city. You have the internet....it's in your own best interest to look it up for yourself.

MT

Bratty · Joined: 11 Apr 2003 Posts: 9

While we're on the topic of visas, i went to the Chinese Consulate today. And was told that i needed a full medical which, after a few enquiries with medical centres around the city, will cost approx $200 *OUCH* Shocked

Is there any way of getting round doing the physical here? Can I get it done in China? What should i apply for? What should i do? Because I've heard there's no guarantee the PSB will accept my medical exam there anyway, so why waste more money! So many questions, so little time.

HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELP!!!!! Confused

yaco · Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Posts: 473

Dear Scotty

If you wish to obtain the Z Visa before your arrival in China you must have a full medical examination.

You best option is to visit your local doctor ( I am from Australia ) who can fill in the form. It cost me $ 30 Aust.

When you arrive in China you will have another full medical examination ( the Chinese version ) which the school should pay for.

You are much better to visit your local Doctor to complete the form.

One word of warning. I accepted the job in Australia applied for the Z Visa in Thailand and required a full medical examination ( which merely copied word for word my Australian medical examination ). I arrived in China to undertake a third medical examination.

Very tiring work.

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

Roger, my double negative must have confused the issue. I was expressing surprise that the person could get the residence permit and experts certificate on a f visa.

"I'm not sure i understand about the expired F visa, I thought you needed a z-visa to get your cards. I would not say a visa is not needed...only that the authorities look for your residence permit, not your visa."

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

I feel hypocritical saying this, but I fudged almost my entire medical when I first came here. The consolate couldn't care less, they didn't even look at it. So I got the cheapest medical, and just filled in the extra stuff myself. And yes, I had to take the entire physical over again when I got here.

Another side note.. I was just innudated with e-mail from Stanely Foreign Language school, who will let me come teach for free, it sounds like, at their summer camp

Bratty · Joined: 11 Apr 2003 Posts: 9

Yaco:

Australia and NZ have different medical systems, you have Medicare, we don't. That $200 was the cheapest, as they require chest x-rays, ecg, and blood tests.

Besides, can i not apply for a 6 month visa and be exempt from all this medical rubbish and do it when i get to china? it sounds like a waste of time and money if i just have to redo it.