Job Discussion Forums

[kait]

Lately, I've been feeling a bit discouraged at my school. I work for Hess. The problem I have is that some of my students just don't seem to be learing English. Considering the fact that they start studying English in public school at around 9 years old, and that some of them have studied with Hess for over years, I would think they would at least be skilled at noun/verb agreement and simple sentence formation. There are, of course, some students who are learning well, but what about the rest?

My question is whether or not this is a rather universal problem in Taiwan, or if Hess's methods are lacking. None of my co-teachers seem concerned about it, but then, none of them are in Taiwan because of a genuine interest in teaching.

[TaoyuanSteve]

Hi "kait." How's Lungtan?

I agree student progress in buxibans can sometimes be described as glacial, as far as pace is concerned. There are two reasons for this that I've discovered.

First, English is just not used here. It is hard to see progress when contact with a language is limited to twice a week in class. Kids will go home, speak their own language and basically not even think about English until class time (ok they do their homework sometimes). I see a lot of parallels between English here and French back where I come from. French was compulsary from about grade 5 to high school. However, we never really got any good at it. I come from Vancouver. Virtually nobody there speaks French. So, the result was I'd finish my class, go home and not think about or practice French until the next class. After a long Summer, we students would have forgotten so much the teacher wouls have to review an aweful lot (I can't even count how many times I've been taught the basic verbs avoir and etre). It definitely was not an environment that created a lot of French speakers. Some managed, however, if they were truly interested. they would join clubs, tune into French broadcasts and even go on exchange. This is much the same as Taiwan. The truly motivated will find a way to progress.

The second problem concerns the way the language is taught here. I do not believe the buxiban system is the best way to learn English. Much that goes on in them is just not sound teaching. I'm not sure how many of these you'll find in Hess, but to generalize te problems are: 1)Rote memorization as a means of learning new vocabulary.2) Native speakers being used more as showpieces than as real teachers.3) Excessive use of translation and use of native tongue in classroom situations. As a side note, I'd mention that there are some buxibans in existence wherein the Foreigner is required to speak Chinese. I observed a class like this once. The foreigner's Chinese was great, but the students' English was pathetic.4) Teaching of the strange KK phonetic system. English is its own phonetic system. No other sytem is required. The teaching of this system wastes students' time that could be used strengthening real English skills. 5)Other time wasters like teaching demos wherein students are forced to memorize and recite materials on special dates in front of their parents just to show parents how much their kids are supposedly learning.

There are other reasons as well. I reconcile myself to the fact that most kids will probably not become English speakers. A few may, but most will learn some basic English and maybe some basic literacy. As much as I wish i could do more, I realise it is probably not possible to do so. I simply enjoy working with my students and live with the realities of working here.

[A.K.A.T.D.N.]

Kait, this number is outdone. I taught in Korea for over five years and my first impression was this one concern: ARE THEY REALLY LEARNING ENGLISH!!

I contracted an ulcer as a result, got angry and threw a couple of books around, maybe even some kids. Kicked my dog, smashed a wall in, went home and found out that when I wanted to relieve myself, I had IBS. Developed lyringitis, tonsilitis, a good dose of alcholism to boot! Invested in books, talked about it at bars, thought of inventing TDN's Methodology, sat for hours at computers trying to figure out how to make "How are you!" creative!

Then I found, a good dose of immigration laws sucking away my veins for quitting job after job since I figured this one thing out. The kids that are their to learn are those who've all ready been exposed to English!! The rest are. . .a proverbial pain in the ass.

Then there's the money aspect of it all, a symptom of which you're supposed not to see, and have you play the proverbial "hear-some-English, speak-no-English," the parents are so richly awarded for in the end.

[TaoyuanSteve]

AKATDN: Do yourself, your poor students, your dog and your wall a favour, dude. Take a pill and settle down. Really, I think your attitude is what is creating most of your problems. Perhaps you need help? I don't know.

I love my students. I don't care if they're interested in English or not. I know there are problems with the system (a few of which I've listed), but they're not mine to change. Instead of freaking out, I get into my kids and having positive relationships with them. I try to do the best I can within the circumstances and lead a positive life. May I suggest you do the same?

[Taylor]

Hello Kait,

You mentioned that you work for Hess. They are one of the largest schools in Taiwan, so we always considered them a major competitor at my 'old' language school in Kaohsiung.

The major debate on this issue is usually described in terms of 'accuracy vs. fluency' While both are obviously important, the debate is whether or not learners can make their points clear....even if they omit a lot of plural nouns, past tense verbs, -ing, etc. Can you communicate with your students at their expected level...especially the ones who have studied for 2+ years?

Personally, I always felt that grammatical accuracy leads to fluency. However, there is something to be said for a person who is willing to talk--and not feel too overwhelmed by all of the intricacies of English.

Hope to hear from you again!!!

Taylor

[A.K.A.T.D.N.]

[TaoyuanSteve]

Once again, you write total pulp without any coherent meaning. I bet you fancy yourself a writer, eh, AKADTN? Bet you think you're being poetic and profound.

I view positive relationships with students and enjoyment as critical to success in esl. I think that goes equally for teacher and student. You talk about stress. What stress? ESL teaching is the easiest job I've ever had.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, your attitude is your worst enemy. Look at where it's gotten you. After five years in Korea, you find you've run out of options there and are forced to start over in Taiwan. Now you're repeating the same pattern here. You've been here how long? A couple of months? Yet you're already onto job number 3 at least. Anyone who can get himself fired from an esl job in Asia needs to have a look in the mirror. Sometimes it's the employer's fault, but in your case and with your history? C'mon.

The original poster sounds like a concerned teacher who worries her students aren't learning. She sounds like a serious and committed teacher who wants to make a difference. She doesn't talk about hitting walls, abusing animals and possibly students. In short, she isn't you.

[kait]

Well, I thank all of you for your replies. I guess the challenge ahead for me is to find ways to institute techniques that actually work for language acquisition within the framework established by Hess. Some of the Hess methods I believe are solid. I think their preschool program is fantastic. Where we fail our children is in the upper levels where we give them a sentence pattern and have them plug in words from their limited vocabularies. They never learn to use the language outside of the rigid framework to which they were exposed. hehe Don't people sound pretentious sometimes when they try to not end their sentences in prepositions. I don't think I'm too radical when I say that for people to learn English, they have to actually formulate a thought in their head, then try to convey it to another human who tries to understand it. They learn to speak in English, but they never learn to communicate in English.

A.K.A.#.@.*.

It sounds like you're saying that the only students who learn English are the ones who already know it. I agree that respect is paramount in the classroom, but I also think learning English should be fun. Since you've been teaching for so long, I'm sure you agree.

We can think of ourselves as teaching children, or we can think of ourselves as teaching Apple, Kevin, Vanilla, Alice, Edward etc. If they have a big test coming up at school, then it's reasonable to lighten up on the homework. If little Sugar has a bad cold, then maybe she won't have to run to the board during the racing game. If Gina's grandpa just died, maybe she will not participate well in class for awhile. Of course, you (collective "you" not you in particular) won't know that if you are just the authoritarian leader in front of the room.


Taylor,

I think you hit the nail on the head. It's all about accuracy vs. fluency. The problem is that I want both. I want my kids to feel comfortable speaking and writing, but I also want to develop good language skills. I want them to experiment with the language and use the language as a tool. I guess I haven't been beaten down by the system enough to have let go of that ideal.

I believe I got my answer. It sounds like their slow English progress is not necessarily because I'm doing something wrong. Although there's always room for self-improvement. Perhaps it is just situational. Our students study more hours per day than some Western children are awake. English is only one of their subjects, and not their priority.

[A.K.A.T.D.N.]

[A.K.A.T.D.N.]

Kait, you never know. They could be learning by the second, soaking it all in! Maybe some Mom's got you on the camera, even the internet, making sure you can hold this one child's attention for 50 minutes by teaching them "Hi, I am Tobi" from one of their "Smile" English books.

Actually, Kait, Taylor is right. It's all about relationships. But when kids eat their boogers in front of my face, I just feel like that guy Monk, and then freak out.

[wombat]

[TaoyuanSteve]