Job Discussion Forums

[Mugato]

My university has exams at the end of October and they cancelled all of my classes for the next two weeks. Mind you, I only found out when I showed up for class this morning. However, the university made us work last weekend so we could make up time for the national holidays were we had a week off instead of the 4 contractually agreed on days-I think a lot of places in China tend to do this. My questions are: 1. why don't they put 7 days for the national holidays in the contract to begin with so they don't have to try and organize weekend-classes (the emphasis here is on trying)? 2. why make such a big deal out of a discrepancy of 2 or 3 days for the national holidays if they know that students are going to miss out on two weeks of classes to begin with. Maybe there is some sort of larger picture here that i am missing and someone can point it out to me. Don't get me wrong though-I am not complaining about having time off. It just feels like my life is run by a 16-year old stoner and I am having a hard time understanding why things are done the way they are done.

Any takes?

PS: I've only been here for a couple of months and maybe it's time I give up on 'why' questions...

[kev7161]

Yeah, don't worry, we all ask these "why?" questions and many of us still do so! I think the only ones that can understand these extra work days to make up for the so-called holidays are the education administrators who make these decisions. Someone else posted this before, but all they have to do is add up the 7 or 8 "extra" days you are getting off and simply add them to the end of the school year. Make sure my contract expires on the appropriate date and everything is taken care of.

We still go 'round and 'round here with our school due to the fact they don't really go into a good explanation on why this is done this way (concerning holiday rescheduling). The thing is, when they are showing potential new teachers our lovely school and going over the contract with them, they don't pull out the school schedule and explain it BEFORE the contract is signed. One reason is that because they don't have a schedule prepared until about one week after the school year begins! I think this is called being "blindsided".

[Mugato]

blindsided-how apt!

i've spoken to some of my FT colleagues and apparently they have never added the off-days to the end of the contract before. i don't think i would have any of it anyway-unless I am going to become incapable of uttering the word NO within the next 8-9months and I switch to the Chinese way of saying no which is 'probably' or 'maybe' or 'maybe not' or 'probably not'! It's all very nuanced and hard to figure out, kind of like the pronunciation tones in Chinese...

[Roger]

Well, this is for the time being a permanent reminder of the Chinese' inability to plan ahead and to organise things. Muddling through is the CHinese work style.
They ought to simply rename the October holidays. We have had one week off now for the fourth time; before it was a one-day holiday.
The rationale behind the lengthening to one week is economics. The government reckoned years before Chinese have too much money on their bank accounts (true), but they don't want their subjects to splurge on overseas travelling. Thus they came up with the novel concept of domestic tourism. Now finally, this pious wishful thinking is beginning to bear fruits...

[burnsie]

There is not such thing as 'Chinese logic'. If the Chinese has learnt anything about logic it has come from interaction with foreigners or a foreign education system. The Chinese thought process is holistic not specific like westerners.

I think the reason why they don't bring it up is because 'this is how things are done here'. They really look inwards most of the time rather than outwards.

Generally the Chinese don't offer extra information unless you ask the specific question in the right way! Go figure.

I always ask the 'why' question as I want to understand rather than change things but I usually get no satisfactory answer which frustrates me more.

[Mugato]

strong words indeed. while i agree that western-style logic isn't a strong trait here i'd still be reluctant to just lable this country as backwards. that notion seems to assume that they are heading exactly where the west is and has been and i don't really see that happen to begin with. they might have state-run capitalism and consumerism but that's about it as far as i can see.

any takes or is that maybe for another forum? i was mostly wondering about chinese logic pertaining to holiday planning and scheduling!

[Gray000]

Browse through some old threads on the subject. It'll give you a sense of perspective.

[Mugato]

ok, thanks. i had a hunch that this is has been exhausted ad absurdum anyway.

[kev7161]

I'll throw in one more little personal nugget. My contract states that I am to work up to 18 periods per week in order to earn my salary. Anything beyond that is considered overtime. A "week" is 5 days. We generally work two "weeks" back to back, thus a maximum of 36 hours in a ten day period (then 4 days off).

So, in the Senior department, we only get TWO days off in the middle of the month and work those other two days. I'm the only FT that does this in my school (out of the 15 that work here). I pointed out upon my first day that this was going to turn in to overtime every month (these extra two days) and how did they want to figure it? I had to fight tooth and nail for them to realize what was an easy concept.

They offered something like "an average of 72 periods per month" (you know, just in case I worked fewer periods in one week and more in another). At first I resisted this idea as September was exactly one of those types of months - - - but I still earned that OT.

Now, I can be happy with an average of 72 hours (but I don't tell THEM that, as I get the extra pay for those two days in the middle of the month PLUS extra pay for those occasional two or three days at the end of the month (after the second four day break). I rarely do NOT work 18 periods per week (unless there is a test day or something and the classes are cancelled). But, man-o-man, what a hassle when it was right there in black and white for them to see.

[struelle]

Yeah we've talked about this lots. It's really hard to come up with any good explanations to why their planning is not logical. But then, doing so is like trying to find a logical understanding to an illogical way of doing things!

I've survived this type of planning by just taking things a week at a time, and asking as many specific questions to get the best indication of what's going on. The planning won't make perfect sense, but to get an indication is the best way to go. Things will probably change, so flexibility is good.

Come to think of it, it's a lot like driving on the street. You have a plan to get somewhere, but constantly:

- vehicles dart out of alleys with no warning
- cars weave across lanes and cut each other off
- the horn is used instead of the breaks, i.e. 'might is right'
- you get rush-hour gridlock as people don't give way at intersections
- roads are closed and blocked with no advance warning at all

Despite all these obstacles, if you actually have a route planned out, you're ahead of the game. I've been riding with many Chinese who don't, and who are constantly lost and end up revising the route as they go.

I suspect that the school managers are like this too. Some have mapped out a route for the semester, and still encounter tons of red-tape obstacles. Other don't have a clear plan, but since 'might is right', the might of the principal gives way over the foreign teacher on the bottom of the pole.

Steve

[Guest]

I have noticed that some Foreign Teachers let this lack of forward thinking (by the Chinese) get to them. The best way to survive over here is to not plan too far ahead yourself, and go with the flow.

Taking things on a week by week basis is a very good idea. I think that the good things and the bad things even out over ther 10 month period.

Many a time I have gone to class only to find it cancelled because they are having exams or practising for sports day etc. I never get any notice about this and I simply turn around and go back home.

Learning to deal with the way the Chinese people go about things is one of the fascinating things for me here.

[deezy]

Rhonda's right. I was totally frustrated at first, with last minute changes, cancellations, etc. (and I'm the one who's SUPPOSED to do the scheduling!). I now 'ride the wave'. I refuse to allow myself to get irritated. The Chinese have a different way of thinking about time. With westerners (in general) time is a flowing river, past through now through future...thus, if we have a lesson in two hours, we have planned it, if we have a meeting in one minute, we work until the meeting starts, as we have planned the agenda, no last minute panics. When we schedule classes, they happen. When planning a future event, we consider what's happening now, and what happened in the past. Not so the Chinese. They think in the 'now'. At times this is most useful. If there is a sudden decision to be made, they just make the decision! In a way, thinking in the 'now' is less stressful. Try it.

For instance, I have a meeting with my Centre Manager in one hour. She hasn't planned anything. I haven't either, today. No agenda. This is normal for her...not for me. I used to get stressed with no plan, no agenda. I am trying it her way now.

Yesterday, they came to pick me up for an appointment. I wasn't even dressed. So they shrugged their shoulders and came back an hour later. No worries.

(Having said that, the Centre Manager gets p'ed off if the teachers don't lesson plan!).

We had a discussion on this subject with a group of Chinese recently. Asked what we would do if we wanted to build a road but there was an historical building in the way, the Chinese said they would knock it down (not consider the past or future), the westerners said they would find a way around it (considering the past and the future).

Fascinating.

[Ace]

Actually I think our awareness of time is much more important than you suggest. It's partly to do with ratiocination...I'm convinced the Chinese dislike thinking...(maybe it's early zen consciousness...but it doesn't make for efficiency in my opinion to rely on muddling through)

They play constant music to avoid having to think - I suppose if I was Chinese I wouldn't want to reflect too deeply, but still...Have you ever asked a taxi driver to turn off the radio and watched him squirm? Then he'll start to whistle through his teeth (in between the hawking and spitting) and finally he'll be...shall we call it - singing?

Of course if you weren't a foreigner he'd never shut up; radio or no radio he'd chatter constantly...all those inane questions about age, salary, family etc...anything to fill in the void...same as what the chinese consider art...there seems to be a kind of national horror vacui...

What they call art, I call decoration...no wonder they love Victoriana...(although no doubt it was the Chinese who invented it)

I would also strongly suggest that we use time as a way of showing respect...forget the name card being presented with two hands or the bribe artfully concealed in a red envelope...

We show respect by not being late, by not wasting other peoples' time...

It certainly works for me...

[deezy]

Ace...you are so right! I tried to explain this concept to my Centre Manager: that by being late we were devaluing the other person's time, effectively saying their time had no value. (My view is that time is the most valuable asset we have, and instead of increasing it decreases as the years pass!).

But they just don't seem to mind if you are late for a meeting, whatever. I'm paranoid about being on time, and it's caused me lots of stress. I am just trying to be 'accepting' of the different way of thinking now.

But today was a case in point. My meeting this morning was delayed, then cancelled. Then my corporate class all said they couldn't make it at 4.00 pm but could make 5.30 pm, to which I said sorry, I'm not working until 9.00 pm. And they didn't mind at all. So then, my CM said I should take the rest of the day off. Thanks a bunch, when I'm mentally prepared for a corporate class! We ended up having the meeting this afternoon, it's just finished. And I bet she puts me down as having today off! What the heck. TIC.

[Roger]