Job Discussion Forums

[Sean]

I have 3 years teaching experience (adults) in Korea and Europe and am finishing a Master's in TESOL. I'm contemptating a move to Shanghai next year, but have some concerns. Not really cultural or standard of living issues, but financial and legal.

1) I'm hoping to teach at a university. Are you legally allowed to work on the side (ie Japan, HK) or is it illegal but mostly overlooked (ie Korea)?

2) If you can teach private lessons, what is the typical per hour rate in Shanghai?

3) If you manage to save money, can/will Chinese banks wire money to a foreign bank account?

4) Is there a limit to how much the banks allow to be wired out (like in Korea)?

5) Is anyone working at an institute or uni in Shanghai, also working on the side, and actually saving money?

I have connections that could land me a university position in Korea, but visited Shanghai last year, loved it, and would rather expand my Asian horizons. Any answers and advice would be greatly appreciated.

[MyTurnNow]

Oy, such a post. You're asking someone for about 2 hours here.

Quick and dirty:

Working on the side varies from school to school. Ask your manager. Most places don't mind private lessons but don't want you working for a direct competitor. From my experience many teachers in Chinese universities do seem to do outside work, largely because the university pay sucks so much. University pay rates are fixed by red-stamp-wielding sturgeon-faced bureaucratic troglodytes in government agencies, who obviously live in a dream world of fairies and leprechauns and unicorns on rainbows. The pay in most universities is a disgrace.

Private lesson rates in major cities can run between 80 and 200 RMB per hour depending on your chops and your ability to negotiate. Go to http://www.thatsshanghai.com and check out the classifieds. A lot of people will want to try and trade you English lessons for Chinese lessons. Don't fall for this unless they have firm, supple hooters.

Banks can wire money to other countries. You must first convert your RMB to your home currency. There are costs to both these steps....sometimes pretty stiff costs, especially if you don't have the Foreign Expert Certificate which saves you from some taxes.

Yes, there will be limits to how much you can wire out. These limits will depend on your salary, and I think there are also some caps in addition to this.

Im leaving out a lot of the details, and we all know where the devil is... But this is the outline.

MT

[Sean]

MyTurnNow:

Thanks for response. Do you think that a university position gets a teacher more respect, in that a teacher may be able to make better connections for work on the side if s/he is associated with such and such university? Would there be more opportunities than if the same teacher worked at a private institute?

[MyTurnNow]

A lot of what's in here is just impressions from experience...
I think there is some cachet attached to a university affiliation, especially if it is a famous and well-regarded university. I also think this might accrue more if you teach a "real" subject- business, engineering, etc.

But there is still a bit for the English teachers too. It seems more impressive to people here than a private school posting. I think it is less than for other teachers because A) there are a LOT of English teachers running around many areas of China, especially places like Shanghai, and B) the universities tend to hire the same alcoholic losers and idiots, uhhh, I meant, uhhh, the same talent, yeah, that's the ticket, talent that the other schools do.

More opportunities? Depends on you. Depends on luck, communication skills (especially non-verbal), physical presence, and so forth. Same in China as anywhere else- it is what you make of it and sometimes what luck brings you. More important in my opinion than affiliation.

Good luck!
MT

[Roger]

May I butt in?

You want to earn money "on the side", not realising that this is paralegal or sublegal, call it what you will, but it certainly is not above board. In other words: If you want to do it get clearance from your school! Most contracts explicitly ban this. I have no problem with this although I readily admit that most schools I have worked for allowed me to earn extra.

Where do you actually mean to go - Shanghai OR Hong Kong? Not the same boat, mate!

Universities pay relatively low salaries, and they are more likely to enforce contractual bans on freelancing. Then again, they offer you a more typical educational job, and you will have to make extra efforts to meet their requirements! You can't just wait for a new class to begin two months down the road, and hope that this time around you and your charges get along with each other better!
I think the JIaotong university is on a par with highly respected Western universities. So don't expect them to bend the rules for you!

[Minhang Oz]

Just browsing the job sites,universities don't seem to pay too well,though the hours are short.I'm at a tech. college which has joint programs with colleges in Australia and Canada-students can get OS qualified here in Shanghai,or go to the partner school to further their studies.Of course they pay above average fees,and I get an above average salary[8000].We live comfortably on my wifes [Chinese teacher's] salary and save mine.Moonlighting is universal,and no problem if outside your normal teaching hours.My school will subcontract me to local companies;they get a cut,but I still get 120 an hour plus a car.Comments above regarding sending money out are true-its generally 75% of your salary,but you can buy US$ on the street.In Shanghai,Jiaotong and Fudan get the respect,but how much money is that worth to you,unless you're a professional academic,as opposed to an honest teacher.

[gerard]

Sean-- I would say just look for an accepable job and worry about extras later. A good base is most important. Lots of luck.

Minhang oz---I heard from my FAO that 30% is all you can change legally. She says it is gov't policy and written in stone. But I guess here in God's country everything is negotiable.

[Minhang Oz]

Gerard,you need to change FAO's old son.We've [varies from 4-6 teachers] got 75% written on our contract,and that's what we convert without any problems...outside the usual interminable travel and time wasted.

[gerard]

MinhonOZ---Well agree to disagree on this one. My FAO has been right about everything so far and she says its 30% ONLY. Not saying you are wrong but... you are wrong...Sorry chap but thats the way it is. I hate to be the one to break the news to you but there you go...No hard feelings mate...

[Minhang Oz]

I suppose if there were a "right" answer,it would be pre-printed on the contract,instead of being left for your FAO to enter.So if 70% [not 75,that was an error] works for me,I'm happy.Also,my bank here,which is the Shanghai branch of my bank at home told me the same figure.Everyone knows rules,fees,regulations differ widely in the PR,which adds excitement and challenge to our otherwise dull lives.Anyway Gerard must have lots of RMB stashed away,and an undented faith in his FAO's infallibility.And my 70%plus his 30% averages out at Letterman's 50%,so we're all correct! ps there may be a weird formula similar to that used to calculate tax with which the % increases with salary.

[Sean]

Thanks for info. posters:

Hey, didn't want to trigger a nasty debate on something as mundane as currency conversions. If I can wire out 75% of my total salary, that's not bad. In Korea, I could wire out 100%. In Prague, the figure is unknown because no teacher ever made enough money to wire money out (people had money wired in to survive - great city though).

Roger doesn't paint a rosy picture of university teaching allowing for much other work. Is it that restrictive? I was hoping to get into a university as a "career move." But I don't want to be totally broke either.

[noyb]

Nearly *every* contract, be it with a university, school or a JV will prohibit outside work. I have yet to see a teacher in Guangzhou ask for permission to work outside. They just do it -- as do the Chinese university teachers. The policy that is in practice is, "Don't tell, don't ask."

[yaco]

I think the standard amount written into contracts to convert into foreign currency is 70 %.

I am lucky that my branch of the Bank of China allows me to convert 90 % into foreign currency.

It ultimately depends on how flexible the foreign currency expert is at the bank.

Often foreigners who own businesses are willing to convert RMB into foreign currency.